View Poll Results: 10 Years Later, was the deal with Mephisto worth it?

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  • Yes

    37 20.11%
  • No

    147 79.89%
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  1. #616
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starrius View Post
    What do you think of the theory of Renew Your Vows is Marvel trying to prove undoing the marriage in 616 Universe is a good by doing MJ as another Mary Sue and Peter as an emasculated man?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY0EG7ldNdM&t=145s

    How does that work in an alternative universe though?
    It's not canon in 616.
    Mary Jane never had powers nor wanted to be a superhero in 616 Universe.

    The marriage lasted for 20 years.
    It took a stupid Devil's bargain to undo that marriage.
    They didn't dare get them divorced.
    They actually killed off Mary Jane, and that didn't even work.

    If Marvel think that they can prove undoing the marriage in the Earth-616 was a good thing through writing about their marriage in an alternative universe, they are deluded.
    I didnt even understood what is the point of the video; or the comments.

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vixx View Post
    Do digital copies count toward these numbers?
    Maybe they would if we had full access to them. And since we do not then we have to go with the data we have available that shows Amazing in trouble as it relates to readership and sales...Marvel's current overall image problems are also having an effect IMHO.

  3. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If Amazing beats its in-house competition that suggests the problem with the book may not be with something specific to that title.
    It no longer looks as if Amazing can even beat it's own in house titles anymore, if you look at Comicchrons sales numbers and rankings for the last few months...and you also have conveniently failed to acknowledge Amazing's failure to beat it's competition nor to stay in the Top Ten.Issue # 25 was a gimmick that artificially boosted its sales numbers and then with May's numbers bleed over 10,000 readers and fell back down to its previous 50.000 sales range...and is continuing to fall month after month.
    Last edited by Timmyb52; 07-16-2017 at 07:35 PM.

  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starrius View Post
    What do you think of the theory of Renew Your Vows is Marvel trying to prove undoing the marriage in 616 Universe is a good by doing MJ as another Mary Sue and Peter as an emasculated man?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY0EG7ldNdM&t=145s
    I saw that. I think it's an example of confirmation bias more that anything else. The idea doesn't even stand up logically. Why would Marvel spend money on a series (albeit one that does make them some money) to prove that OMD saved Spider-Man when they can just ignore the readers not onboard with the New Coke Spidey and continuity publish the version of Spider-Man that fits their agenda?

    Besides, while I think its safe to say that the Spider-Marriage is more loved by the fanbase than the creators in general, in practice, the embargo on it seems to be more Nimby in nature than Orwellian; "Married Spider-Man is okay for AU stories, but must never happen in 616." Even Dan "the marriage cannot come back ever, even if the Powers That Be want it" Slott, has said things to the effect of that on this forum (something to the effect of: "If Marvel is creating RYV, they want to succeed").

    Quote Originally Posted by Starrius View Post
    How does that work in an alternative universe though?
    It's not canon in 616.
    Mary Jane never had powers nor wanted to be a superhero in 616 Universe.
    Well, despite how messy RYV's continuity is, a case can be made that as an alternate branch off 616, the characters in here are the same ones we were introduced to back in the '60s, making the RYV Peter and MJ the same characters as the 616 ones, just with different life experiences from ten years prior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starrius View Post
    The marriage lasted for 20 years.
    It took a stupid Devil's bargain to undo that marriage.
    They didn't dare get them divorced.
    They actually killed off Mary Jane, and that didn't even work.

    If Marvel think that they can prove undoing the marriage in the Earth-616 was a good thing through writing about their marriage in an alternative universe, they are deluded.
    I don't think they care that much what we think, so long as they stay in the red.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    I didnt even understood what is the point of the video; or the comments.
    I used to follow that reviewer a lot in the past. He's pretty interested in the political and worldview ideas behind comics, coming from a pretty conservative perspective, which is the basis of his examination. So, I think he was less reviewing the issue and more making his case why the comic was built on a flawed premise.

    That video is actually the reason I quit his channel; I made an offhand comment on his blog that I disagreed with the video and didn't really see where he was coming from (it is, in fact my favorite issue of the series to date), was badgered to defend that view despite me saying that it was only my biased opinion and I didn't want to fight over it (his assumption being that I didn't want admit he was right and I was being closed-minded, despite me being the only one of us who seemed willing to concede that my view was subjective), and things went downhill from there, leading me to decide that it was time to move on. I don't need someone pushing me around just because I think they're mistaken.

    I will say this about the reviewer, I think he's honest in what he believes and what he says. However, I've found that many of those beliefs don't make sense with what I've observed (although I'm a moderate Independent, so I'm not really aligned with his politics), and I think that he's developed a sense of confirmation bias in his examinations, as that video showed. However, none of us are perfect. I do the same in other areas, so I think stones and glass houses apply here with this reviewer and whatever differences and difficulties we may or may not have with him or his reviews.

  5. #620

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmyb52 View Post
    It no longer looks as if Amazing can even beat it's own in house titles anymore, if you look at Comicchrons sales numbers and rankings for the last few months...and you also have conveniently failed to acknowledge Amazing's failure to beat it's competition nor to stay in the Top Ten.Issue # 25 was a gimmick that artificially boosted its sales numbers and then with May's numbers bleed over 10,000 readers and fell back down to its previous 50.000 sales range...and is continuing to fall month after month.
    The main time Amazing Spider-Man's been beaten by another Marvel Universe ongoing title is following a relaunch on that title, but the numbers for those tend to go down soon enough.

    It's possible X-Men: Blue will be the exception to that rule, though it's early to tell right now.

    Any recent decline in ASM sales is unlikely to be due to the response to a story that came out a decade ago.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  6. #621
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    My view about One More Day story line

    The Mephisto stuff made no sense.

    Peter and Mary Jane could have just divorced, and it wouldn't be from the love between them being lost.
    The fact of MJ being a stressed out wife who has not only been worried about Peter getting killed but also being in danger herself numerous times would make a divorce understandable.
    MJ was like a military-wife times 40. She shown a lot of strength.
    I think that she shown a lot of strength during the Clone Saga.

    There could have been a storyline of her having been seriously hurt that she is fighting for her life in the hospital room. She ends up surviving death, but she finally ends the marriage.
    Another option is Peter feels very guilty about Mary Jane almost dying, and so he ends the marriage with the idea that she is much better without him. Of course, Mary Jane disagrees with Peter and fights for him. Peter constantly pushes her away to the point that he avoids even being in personal contact with her, and so Mary Jane gives up out of frustration.

    Don't just wipe out the marriage like it never happened.

  7. #622

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bor View Post
    Yeah its been worth it. There has been lots of entertaining stories that has come out of it for me. Most noticeably for me Superior.
    You could have done Superior Spider-Man with a married peter.
    Undo One More Day, bring back the marriage, and make Spider-Man great again
    Renew Your Vows is the only good Spider-Man book on the market nowadays
    Married Spider-Man is better than Teenage Spider-Man
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  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdSpider View Post
    You could have done Superior Spider-Man with a married peter.
    Yeah, the biggest change I feel is that MJ would've been one of the people most determined to figure out the truth behind what happened to Peter.

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyedyeoff10 View Post
    Yeah, the biggest change I feel is that MJ would've been one of the people most determined to figure out the truth behind what happened to Peter.
    Which I think would would have been much better than Carlie Cooper (a character very few people actually cared about) investigating.

  10. #625

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdSpider View Post
    You could have done Superior Spider-Man with a married peter.
    It would be a different story, structurally, given the larger role for MJ, and the reactions of other characters to whatever she ends up doing. There would also have to be a different answer to the question of why they're not sleeping with one another. And then we have to consider Marconi.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It would be a different story, structurally, given the larger role for MJ, and the reactions of other characters to whatever she ends up doing. There would also have to be a different answer to the question of why they're not sleeping with one another. And then we have to consider Marconi.
    I did read someone on tumblr outlining a married Peter version of Superior. It involved MJ figuring things out early, but then getting kidnapped/taken off the board for reasons beyond her own control for most of the run before being she freed herself and went out to warn everyone.

  12. #627
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    And let's be honest, what's going to have more dramatic potential: SpOck starting a relationship with a woman when Pete is single and Carlie Cooper is investigating, which is what we got, or SpOck driving Pete's wife MJ off after trying to play along, then starting a relationship with another woman, all while MJ tries to prove that she's not crazy and Ock is inside her husband?

    I mean, if you're someone who felt the marriage was actively eliminating personal life drama for Peter, that scenario alone proves its wrong. If anything, it simply proves that marriage can raise the emotional stakes.
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  13. #628

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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    And let's be honest, what's going to have more dramatic potential: SpOck starting a relationship with a woman when Pete is single and Carlie Cooper is investigating, which is what we got, or SpOck driving Pete's wife MJ off after trying to play along, then starting a relationship with another woman, all while MJ tries to prove that she's not crazy and Ock is inside her husband?

    I mean, if you're someone who felt the marriage was actively eliminating personal life drama for Peter, that scenario alone proves its wrong. If anything, it simply proves that marriage can raise the emotional stakes.
    The comic was successful as is. A significant change might hurt the end result, by upsetting the combination of elements that led to the initial product.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I did read someone on tumblr outlining a married Peter version of Superior. It involved MJ figuring things out early, but then getting kidnapped/taken off the board for reasons beyond her own control for most of the run before being she freed herself and went out to warn everyone.
    Is the problem less about them being married / age and more about that kind of relationship being a bitch to write about? If they are a tight as portrayed - she's going to know everything about about him and vice versa

    *pitch* Peter switches bodies in this grand arc

    (Guy just back from his 5th wedding anniversary trip) Dude his wife is going to know

    Oh, the morlocks got her tied up in the basement

    (Newlywed) Well wouldn't Pete save her first, then the world? It's his wife not his gf..

    (Office single guy) Well - his GF never knew .. Hell he didn't even notice she was having twins... He was lying to the last one, the other was a Krull spy that deflated at brunch in front of JJJ (awkward), then we tossed one into a woodchipper - he was so heartbroken it took him 3 issues to finally swipe left ...but this one he's been honest with and she's put up with tons of stuff already. He could get away with it .. Or get divorced or something

    (Married guys, in unison) lol .. That wouldn't work.

    (New voice) Remember the womb raider arc? My wife would be so pissed...

    Also if he's going to join the MCU and save the world every 6 mo - wouldn't she get pissed he's always gone? It's one thing to have him running down the street for milk and a bank robbery .. But shoot, my wife knows me better than I know myself - she'd FaceTime me mid battle..

    (Old married guy) Yea mine too - got married at 24, 2 kids - I'm barely functional without her

    (only female in the room) Can't she save herself?

    *silence*

    (Bravest guy) Oh sure - have the super model with no powers take out Ock ... The guy that's handed out hero his gift wrapped ass dozens of times ...Again...

    (Only female) didn't aunt may beat Ock, in her early 110s?

    Sigh - yeah, in the 70s ...might as well have a drone spider buggy bust down the door ..

    (All) mental note : drone spider buggy

    If you always have to incapacitate her or leave her waiting an worrying, or protect her because she's not a superhero - that's got to get old...and be hard to constant get around

    Alternative is Petes always got to save her or lie to her, which (as I wrote earlier) he should have grown out of with Gwens sudden demise as originally written

    I get what so much effort is put to keeping him in that young age range that doesn't deal with this stuff - but that's not the charector (after 20ish books - he's a man in college)
    Last edited by Vixx; 07-17-2017 at 10:29 AM.

  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The comic was successful as is.
    But it has not aged well. A CBR article even called it worse than OMD.

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