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  1. #61
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Feel free to explain...
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  2. #62
    Spectacular Member OutlawGunStar's Avatar
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    Just check any similar discussion and you will find a bunch of same arguments that it was never canon,it never mattered and so on.
    Or just see anything Pablo Hidalgo said.Ever.

  3. #63
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    Just check any similar discussion and you will find a bunch of same arguments that it was never canon,it never mattered and so on.
    Or just see anything Pablo Hidalgo said.Ever.
    Feel free to post a link. I'm not going to prove your argument for you.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  4. #64
    Spectacular Member OutlawGunStar's Avatar
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    Of every similar argument online?That might take a while.
    Head over to https://www.facebook.com/NRHistoricalOffice/ , they do a good job of chronicling Disney's reactions.

  5. #65
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    Of every similar argument online?That might take a while.
    Head over to https://www.facebook.com/NRHistoricalOffice/ , they do a good job of chronicling Disney's reactions.
    Okay... I read a bit of that.
    Most of it was a gross misrepresentation of current canon.
    Also, very, very little (as in none that I saw) actual words that came from Lucasfilm people.

    What they did do, I think, was explain your original mystifying complaint that according to Disney the EU never existed. Seems like you meant to say it was never canon.
    Well, it never was. Not according to George Lucas anyway. See also post 45 of this thread and the page or so after it.
    Last edited by Carabas; 08-16-2017 at 08:01 AM.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  6. #66
    Spectacular Member OutlawGunStar's Avatar
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    No offense,but that was just your observation.You got any actual words from Lucas on that?

  7. #67
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    No offense,but that was just your observation.You got any actual words from Lucas on that?
    Yes. They are actually in this thread.

    And yes, it is my observation of things that actually happened, not just my opinion. Mandalorians.
    Last edited by Carabas; 08-16-2017 at 08:10 AM.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  8. #68
    Spectacular Member OutlawGunStar's Avatar
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    Okay,Mandalorians were different in Clone Wars from their previous portrayal.I concede.Everything sucked.You won.Pat yourself on the back now.

  9. #69
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Feel free to bring up support for your arguments.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  10. #70
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    My problem isn't so much that its rebooted,as much as the insistence that the EU never existed(from Disney and a good piece of the fandom). For example,the TMNT get a new version fairly often,but nobody ever came up and said: You know,Mirage/Fred Wolf/4Kids turtles never existed,its no longer canon.
    Well, sort-of. It's been hinted that the movie TMNT de-canonized the movies Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III, leaving only the original movie as part of the storyline. (Now, granted there are Easter eggs to 2 and 3 in TMNT and there's nothing in the film itself to strongly argue that the previous sequels did not happen as well. There is also the question if the TMNT movie itself is it's own thing, with or without the original as a prequel; it was considered a separate reality in Turtles Forever, for what it's worth.)

    The TV movie Turtles Forever, a finale for the 2k3 TMNT cartoon, did establish that almost all the previous comics and other adaptations existed as part of the same multiverse. But, the 2012 TMNT episode "Trans-Dimensional Turtles" was a remake of sorts of that movie, with a different set-up. So, in essence, 2k3 (and their multiverse) is not canon to the 2012 TMNT show (although both count the '80s show as part of their continuities).

    Now, granted, 2012 never insinuated that 2k3 and the other versions it embraced were not canonical onto themselves, nor did TMNT argue that there wasn't a continuity in which all three original live action movies happened.

    Also, Disney has done nothing to suggest that Legends did not exist. In fact, they've been very open about Legends existing and how it's still shaping the franchise: In the original announcement (bear in mind that they thought the tie-ins, a side piece of the franchise, were important enough to announce the new direction, rather than just starting over again with no fanfare and leaving us to puzzle things out), they said: "While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe....Demand for past tales of the Expanded Universe will keep them in print, presented under the new Legends banner.

    They've been generally open about when major things from Legends get reused in canon (the who publicity of Thrawn joining Rebels was basically "This Legends character is going to be appearing on our show. Isn't that awesome?") and they've been keeping original Legends novels and comics in print. That's not what you do when you want audiences to forget something ever happened

    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    So why Disney and Marvel couldn't adopt a same approach,and allow different universes to exist at the same time,is really beyond me.
    There's a difference between letting something exist and producing new materials for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    Just check any similar discussion and you will find a bunch of same arguments that it was never canon,it never mattered and so on.
    Or just see anything Pablo Hidalgo said.Ever.
    To be bluntly honest, the idea that Legends was canon was always only honored in the breach, at best. The movies and TV shows regularly overwrote parts of them. Heck, the idea of them even being potentially being canon was more or less a recent development. The comics and novels produced in the '70s were made without any attempt to sync them up with the other departments, the RPG and original editions of the '90s novels (when the Expanded Universe/Legends as we know it began to be shaped) were printed with disclaimers that this did not represent the future of any sequel movies and that Lucas could change them at a moment's notice, reference books around this time identified non-movie materials as "quasi-canon" and stressed that that information was suspect in regards to accuracy.

    The idea that everything was canon didn't seem to come about until the age of the prequels, and even then it wasn't worth that much. As pointed out before, the Clone Wars TV show completely replaced the Clone Wars multimedia project developed by Del Rey, Dark Horse, and LucasArts. The last word we got on how pre-Disney canon worked was in the Essential Reader's Guide, which explained in the introduction (p. ix):
    "The most definitive canon of the Star Wars universe is encompassed by the film and television productions in which George Lucas is directly involved...But Lucas allowed for an Expanded Universe that exists directly parallel to the one he directly oversees...Though these stories may get his stamp of approval, they don't enter his canon unless they are cinematically depicted in one of his projects.
    So, no Legends was never part of the movie canon, which, in essence means that they were never canon period (albeit being canon onto themselves and counties copies of the movies and TV show within their own version of the universe, which did somewhat muddy the issue, hence the debate we have here today). In effect, with the reboot, Disney has simply declared the Legends canon done while adding to the movie canon through the new tie-ins. Since Legends was never part of this canon in the first place, nothing has really changed, just which canon is getting new material. This is pretty much what TMNT did all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawGunStar View Post
    Of every similar argument online?That might take a while.
    Head over to https://www.facebook.com/NRHistoricalOffice/ , they do a good job of chronicling Disney's reactions.
    I know about the New Republic Historical Office. I haven't found them to be an especially accurate source of information.

    Also, on the argument that you're citing the Historical Office on (r.e. Pablo Hidalgo on canon), they are misrepresenting Hidalgo's position; in the article the Facebook page links to, Hidalgo's original Twitter comments are posted. He specifically says that his comments are just his own opinion, not official policy like the Historical Office claims. Hidalgo is also not discussing the canon in general, but adaptations of the movies into other forms (novels, comics, what have you) -- "It's my way of dodging the who-shot-first horse carcass. All that's canon is that two people entered that booth, & Greedo died. Reports vary" -- which is different than the Historical Office's claims that he means that they don't care about internal consistency within the franchise.

    Furthermore, as far as the Historical Office's dismissal of Legends being full of contractions, I was there. I read a quite a bit of those materials. and about those materials. The Expanded Universe/Legends was full of kriffing contradictions. So far, canon has them beat in terms of consistency within materials and in sheer amount of synergy between the different mediums and companies producing them (look up the saga of the Geonosian queen from the original trilogy era as a case in point).
    Last edited by WebLurker; 08-16-2017 at 05:10 PM.

  11. #71
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I don't think you're the only one. But I think most, even those that still prefer the old EU canon, are willing to at least consume the new official canon.

    I'm was in a good position because, while I grew up on the original EU, but the time even the idea of an Episode VII was a possibility, I was so out of the EU and thought it had gotten so bad that I just didn't care anymore. I still cherish the memories of the old Bantam days, but I lost all interest with NJO and everything after, so by the time the sequel trilogy was a reality, I had no problems with the EU being ignored. The only thing I miss is the idea of Mara Jade. Like Thrawn I really wish she could carry over eventually.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

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