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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    I have not had a strong reaction. I see people acting like this news is some kind of personal insult, and I address the issue by saying "We don't know enough about this story to have any strong reactions at this point."...
    This isn't accurate. It's common sense that "we haven't read the story, yet." But, each of your replies to me has included you distorting what I've actually said. THAT'S what I don't appreciate.

    You want to give the story a chance? Go for it. I like your general positivity.

    But, just as it's fair to have a positive impression of a story you have not read, it is also fair to have a negative impression. DC's track record is terrible. They treat Hippolyta and the Amazons like crap. A lot. Robison's record is shaky at best. I might trust him more on this if it had been his own idea. It also doesn't help that his Earth 2 "wonders" did little to nothing with WW.

    All signs, imo, point to bust. But, again, I'll gladly say I was wrong.
    Last edited by Awonder; Yesterday at 05:19 PM.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    When Azzarello added Lennox et al.
    Well, we both know that's debatable. But, Lennox and co are a big part of my Exhibit A in not trusting anyone at DC to know what they're doing even if this turns out to be a good story. WW deserves better than yet another long-lost family member. If they need a 'Wonder Man' so bad, they should actually out some effort into it, instead of just repeating the same tropes for ... what number are we on now?

  3. #168
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    Now, if Rucka (or Simone) were writing this, I would give it a shot. But, him avoiding it? That doesn't give me any hope. And, yes, it should go away. If Johns doesn't think enough of his own idea to actually write it, then it's just another gimmick, which, sadly, DC often relies on way too much..
    Rucka avoiding it doesn't tell us anything (and anyway, he still alluded to it from the start in the Rebirth issue). It's also presumptuous to think that Johns doesn't think much of his idea. He's pretty much the general "showrunner" of the entire DCU, generating ideas and coordinating with the individual writers while they tell their own stories. Jason isn't the only idea he's created that he's not writing himself. King and Williamson did the Batman/Flash crossover dealing with things from his Rebirth one shot. Batman proposing to Catwoman may even have been his idea that King is executing. Jason coming into play now may have always been the plan, and if Rucka didn't want any part of it, Johns/DC didn't seem to mind and let him do what he wanted.

    Of course it's a gimmick. Mainstream superhero comics are nothing but gimmicks, and have been since the dawn of time (to varying degrees of success).

  4. #169
    Fantastic Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I just think DC needs new leadership and has for a very long time now.
    Though I'm not particularly averse to Jason it does seem the powers that be can't envision the Wonderverse without a male character for them to identify with. Instead of Orion, Superman, Zeus, etc. they should just use Steve.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; Yesterday at 06:00 PM.

  5. #170
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Johns and Robinson are authors that i usually like work from so I'm willing to give this story the benefit of the doubt. It Jason turns out to be as generic as Lennox was, I'll be disappointed.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  6. #171
    Incredible Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Feels gimmicky to me, too --and not in a good way. (And am I to understand that Azzarello did this already? Sheesh.)

    I mean, they just spent a whole freaking year drawing out her origin and now hot on the heels of that they're unveiling another hidden layer to it? Not predicting it's going to suck, though. I've never read Robinson.
    Last edited by Largo161; Yesterday at 05:51 PM.
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  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Rucka avoiding it doesn't tell us anything (and anyway, he still alluded to it from the start in the Rebirth issue). It's also presumptuous to think that Johns doesn't think much of his idea. He's pretty much the general "showrunner" of the entire DCU, generating ideas and coordinating with the individual writers while they tell their own stories. Jason isn't the only idea he's created that he's not writing himself. King and Williamson did the Batman/Flash crossover dealing with things from his Rebirth one shot. Batman proposing to Catwoman may even have been his idea that King is executing. Jason coming into play now may have always been the plan, and if Rucka didn't want any part of it, Johns/DC didn't seem to mind and let him do what he wanted.

    Of course it's a gimmick. Mainstream superhero comics are nothing but gimmicks, and have been since the dawn of time (to varying degrees of success).
    Do you, honestly, think Johns has a long-term plan for WW that is just now getting around to yet another brother? Isn't it more likely, based on their track record, that they love to throw out random ideas?

    Sure, comics have lots of gimmicks; don't you get a little tired of them? When was the last time 'dead and back again' was actually a good story? Return of Bruce Wayne, maybe? But, aren't most of those stories laughable by now? Don't many comic fans now laugh at death because it has been so poorly used so often?

    If WW didn't have a storied history of "hey, your past is not what you thought" already, I'd be more open to this idea. But, how many long lost family members does one girl need? Seriously, someone tell me of a superhero with more (that doesn't include the Summers family).

  8. #173
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Largo161 View Post
    Feels gimmicky to me, too --and not in a good way. (And am I to understand that Azzarello did this already? Sheesh.)

    I mean, they just spent a whole freaking year drawing out her origin and now hot on the heels of that they're unveiling another hidden layer to it? Not predicting it's going to suck, though. I've never read Robinson.
    It was never really "Hidden". Most folks were well aware of it.

    The main issue is the entire "Rebirth" run opted to go with "Vague". It would have been incredibly simple to lay out the specifics. Instead, it's a run where even some supporters are saying "Huh?"

  9. #174
    Incredible Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    It was never really "Hidden". Most folks were well aware of it.

    The main issue is the entire "Rebirth" run opted to go with "Vague". It would have been incredibly simple to lay out the specifics. Instead, it's a run where even some supporters are saying "Huh?"
    I meant in-universe "hidden", not that readers weren't aware of the possibility that this was coming.
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  10. #175
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Largo161 View Post
    I meant in-universe "hidden", not that readers weren't aware of the possibility that this was coming.
    Ah, copy that.

  11. #176
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    Do you, honestly, think Johns has a long-term plan for WW that is just now getting around to yet another brother? Isn't it more likely, based on their track record, that they love to throw out random ideas?

    Sure, comics have lots of gimmicks; don't you get a little tired of them? When was the last time 'dead and back again' was actually a good story? Return of Bruce Wayne, maybe? But, aren't most of those stories laughable by now? Don't many comic fans now laugh at death because it has been so poorly used so often?

    If WW didn't have a storied history of "hey, your past is not what you thought" already, I'd be more open to this idea. But, how many long lost family members does one girl need? Seriously, someone tell me of a superhero with more (that doesn't include the Summers family).
    They're not just randomly throwing out the idea now though. There is more evidence to suggest that Johns has been planning this for a while, the biggest being that Jason's existence was established over a year ago.

    When I get tired of the gimmicks, I just ignore the comics shilling them and read some creator owned indy stuff. Generally I think we should know what we're signing on for when it comes to the Big Two. These are big name characters that have to move lots of multi media merchandise. Some of it's crap, some of it's good, and none of its permanent because all of this has been going on since before most of us here were born and ideally DC wants things to go on indefinitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    It was never really "Hidden". Most folks were well aware of it.

    The main issue is the entire "Rebirth" run opted to go with "Vague". It would have been incredibly simple to lay out the specifics. Instead, it's a run where even some supporters are saying "Huh?"
    Which kind of baffles me, because I thought the writing was on the wall when the first issue of Year One came out, being billed as the current definitive version and clearly showing a much different Themyscira we'd been getting since 2011. I think people are just creating issues to be "confused" about because the final product isn't matching what they wanted in their heads (the clay birth doesn't appear to be back, the New 52 era is wiped out, etc).

  12. #177
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    If your mom and dad told you now that, at the time of your birth, they threw your twin out the window, because they didn't want a daughter, wouldn't that affect how you think of them?
    Diana doesn't have much a relationship with her father as it is. Finding out something else potentially negative about Zeus doesn't do much to change the little dynamic they already have. If Zeus has any role in what happened to Jason in the first place.

    As for Hippolyta, we don't have idea one about how she felt about losing him. Was it her choice? Or was he taken by force? Is she glad to be rid of him? Or does she think of him every day and long for a son she never got a chance to know? We don't know. What we saw of the birth was from Myrina's POV, and she got out of dodge before she could see, and as a result before we could see, what happened after the reveal of a baby boy.

    And with all that said, even if this does alter her relationship with her mother and/or her father, I still don't get how that constitutes a destroyed origin.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; Today at 12:44 AM.
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  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    They're not just randomly throwing out the idea now though. There is more evidence to suggest that Johns has been planning this for a while, the biggest being that Jason's existence was established over a year ago.
    I didn't say it was just now being tossed out; as you said, it was tossed out a year ago. It was just tacked on to Darkseid War - a very underwhelming story - as a shallow gimmick for Rebirth (along with the incredibly dumb 'three Jokers'). They did nothing with it in that story and have done nothing noteworthy with it since. So, no, I don't believe Johns actually has a winning idea here; aside from Aquaman, he hasn't had much of a winner since Blackest Night. Robinson hasn't had many hits in awhile either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    ... And with all that said, even if this does alter her relationship with her mother and/or her father, I still don't get how that constitutes a destroyed origin.
    A) I didn't say it was "a destroyed origin."

    B) You didn't answer my question. ;-)
    Last edited by Awonder; Today at 01:43 AM.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    Well, we both know that's debatable.
    Yes, there's no debating the fact that it's debateable, since we've debated it.

    But, Lennox and co are a big part of my Exhibit A in not trusting anyone at DC to know what they're doing even if this turns out to be a good story. WW deserves better than yet another long-lost family member. If they need a 'Wonder Man' so bad, they should actually out some effort into it, instead of just repeating the same tropes for ... what number are we on now?
    It definitely is funny how often they come back to this. Before "The Darkseid Wars," I wouldn't have said that wgat Wonder Woman needed was an Amazon brother--but, the idea got introduced, so I guess I'd rather see it followed up on rather than left dangling forever. Speaking more generally, I've liked some of Robinson's work in the past well enough to look forward to seeing what he does with Wonder Woman--but I can understand and respect your misgivings about what he's been given to work with here.

    One thing from the whole Jason/Grail backstory that I hope they'll get into is the possibility that Grail's mother, after leaving the island, became a kind of WWII-era "wonder woman." They may let that drop, since the whole temporal issue (Grail's mother leaving the island on the night Diana was born yet somehow ending up in the World War II era) would need a lot of explaining. But since part of Robinson's forte is dealing with Golden Age characters and legacies, it would be interesting to see what he'd do with this. (For me, it would be even more interesting to let Robinson do a reboot to carry over the WWI Wonder Woman origin from the movie--but that probably won't happen anytime soon. )

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