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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    It wasn't his idea, but he was the Moff and later Grand Moff in charge of the sector it was being built in and was directly appointed by the Emperor himself to oversee it, as I said earlier in the thread Vader at the point answered directly to the Emperor, but so the same was true for Tarkin, in a way they had similar ranks just in different ways, and since the Death Star was Tarkin's personal project appointed by the Emperor himself even Vader had to respect it.

  2. #32
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    Tarkin always interested me a lot. He's one of my favorite characters in Star Wars that aren't named Luke, Leia, Han or Vader.

  3. #33
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    The original EU had him come up with the idea for it (although it was also partially credited to Sienar, creator of the TIE fighter)-and that it took a much shorter time to build, and actually had a partially working prototype version (mainly the frame and the laser). However, AOTC and ROTS largely overrode that continuity by making it a Seperatist weapon that was kind of taken over and completed by the Empire.

    Krennic's and Erso from Rogue One were technically part of Tarkin's initiative (An Imperial think tank), but apparentally Krennic did most of the "hands on" work for the project before Tarkin took over.
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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The original EU had him come up with the idea for it (although it was also partially credited to Sienar, creator of the TIE fighter)-and that it took a much shorter time to build, and actually had a partially working prototype version (mainly the frame and the laser). However, AOTC and ROTS largely overrode that continuity by making it a Seperatist weapon that was kind of taken over and completed by the Empire.
    The Death Star's history has been revised and retconned a lot over the years. The original idea was that Tarkin invented it -- or at least came up with the idea and supervised the project; The Legends Jedi Academy Trilogy books showed his construction site, complete with an unfinished prototype with a working laser. Then the Rogue Planet novel retconned that Tarkin stole the idea from Sienar (who had lost interest in it), claiming to Palpatine that it was his idea. The AOTC reveal was retconned with Legends by having Palpatine pass on the plans to the Geonosisians, who started it during the Clone Wars, then it fell into Imperial hands and was finished by the Empire (and the half a dozen other designers and inventors that Legends had claimed were the brainchild or major inventors behind it). The Jedi Academy prototype was retconned by the Essential Atlas as a testbed for the laser (since ROTS established that the ANH Death Star was the first one started).

    So, by the end of Legends, the Death Star's history was almost as messy as the story of how the Rebels stole the plans (basically for the latter, there were multiple mutually contradictory stories that were forced together with the retcon that it took multiple missions to steal every singe piece of the plans). The reboot and Rogue One simplified the messes into one account.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Krennic's and Erso from Rogue One were technically part of Tarkin's initiative (An Imperial think tank), but apparentally Krennic did most of the "hands on" work for the project before Tarkin took over.
    Well, Tarkin was the overall supervisor of the station project; Krennic was in charge of the superlaser's construction.

  5. #35
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    Didn't Vader oppose the idea of the Death Star? I always looked at it like some way of Palpatine diminishing Vader's power and influence; kind of like a punishment or test for Vader to deal with. Vader was still Palpatine's only real competition and to place him in a leadership position over the galaxy's supposed best deterrent seemed kind of out of balance with how the Sith Lord would operate.

    EDIT: This guy came up with a different answer. Basically he said Vader was not attached to the military directly, Tarkin ran the DeathStar and basically Vader would come in an out of interaction with the military based off the needs of the Emperor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odFDljJhqM
    Last edited by Professional; 09-15-2017 at 09:48 PM.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yeah, in both Rogue One and ANH he seemed mostly unimpressed, even with Jedha's destruction (Mostly because of they having to make a cover story for the senate).

    I'd say there's plenty of evidence in the films that Vader wanted to overthrow Palpatine and rule in his stead with Padme (and then Luke and possibly Leia) by his side-of course he did eventually, but only at the cost of his own life (In ROTJ). It'd be interesting what a Vader-run Empire would've been like.
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  7. #37
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Didn't Vader oppose the idea of the Death Star? I always looked at it like some way of Palpatine diminishing Vader's power and influence; kind of like a punishment or test for Vader to deal with. Vader was still Palpatine's only real competition and to place him in a leadership position over the galaxy's supposed best deterrent seemed kind of out of balance with how the Sith Lord would operate.
    Not sure if that's been addressed one way or another for Vader. I know some sources have indicated that some of the navy officers didn't like the Death Star. For example, in the canon Darth Vader series, Grand General Tagge expressed the opinion that the Death Star had been a waste of resources that could've been used to build capital ships and other smaller-scale military equipment that could've been had more flexible applications (the guy basically worshiped at the altar of TV Tropes' "Boring But Practical" trope).

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    EDIT: This guy came up with a different answer. Basically he said Vader was not attached to the military directly, Tarkin ran the DeathStar and basically Vader would come in an out of interaction with the military based off the needs of the Emperor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odFDljJhqM
    Oh, Star Wars Explained. Love that guy's stuff.

  8. #38
    Fantastic Member Master Planner's Avatar
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    When ANH released,Lucas hadn't decided how important Vader or the Emperor could be.The original idea was Emperor as a figurehead with Tarkin as the more serious power behind the throne.

    But with the Legends and current continuity,Tarkin has the second best political position after the Emperor and his idea about a superweapon that would keep systems under empire's control fitted Palpatine's mentality and desire for an even more direct central power.After all,the Senate survived,even as a weak legal body in the Empire years.

    Vader's power is more outside of Empire's structure.He is the enforcer of the Emperor.His executioner and his voice.Depending the situation,Vader can be the top in the hierarchy,but in a situation where he has the blessing of the Emperor.For example,in the Empire Strikes Back,Vader is clearly the leader of the Imperial Fleet,although he is not a Grand Admiral.His position is due to Emperor's command.

    Taking a more real life analogue,i see Tarkin as Palpatine's Herman Goering,while Vader is more of Himmler/Scortzenny type.
    " I am Loki Scar-Lip, Loki Skywalker, Loki Giant's Child, Loki Lie-Smith. I am Loki, who is fire and wit and hate. I am Loki. And I will be under an obligation to no one."

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  9. #39
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Well Tarkin was a governor, so he was heavily in on the political side of running things, while Vader was a general during the Clone Wars, so he was probably still military. Different branches of the Empire. (Plus, didn't Anakin think politics were stupid or something when he was flirting with Padme in that cringe scene from "Attack of the Clones?")

    Tarkin also referred to Vader as an "old friend" so I think he was one of the few people Vader didn't mind occasionally taking orders from, in regards to special projects such as the Death Star.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  10. #40
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    Tarkin was the governor of the outer rim territories (where most of ANH takes place), and he was in charge of the Death Star Project overall. And Sheev had been grooming him as an ally since before The Clone Wars. Sheev clearly placed A LOT of value in Tarkin, he was basically one of the most powerful men in the Empire.

    Also Vader seemed far less formidable in ANH than he does later on. An officer openly questions the wisdom of attacking Leia's ship (instead of being terrified of Vader's mere presence like later ones would be), and Vader calmly explains his reasoning to the guy. Motti mocks him to his face, he personally leads a TIE Fighter attack, etc. Actually it's never explicitly stated that Vader is Sheev's personal apprentice in ANH now that I think about it. Vader acts like more of a personal thug in ANH than he does later on.

    The reason is simple, Lucas saw how popular Vader was in ANH and kept expanding his role as a result. He's more of a feared mastermind when we get to ESBm and he's basically Space Messiah/center of the universe once the PT roles around.

    As for an in-story excuse, well I chalk it up to Tarkin having died (along with other high-ranking Imperials) when the Death Star blew up. So with Tarkin gone, Vader assumes a more direct leadership position within the military.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    ^That's pretty much Vader's role in some of the earlier drafts as well. More of a side villain. He didn't even hack the iconic armor worked out until Ralph Mcquarrie or someone else reasoned he would need some kind of spacesuit for boarding the Rebel ship (This probably guided the stormtrooper design as well). I don't think the thought of him wearing it because of some past injury didn't really come around until around ESB or so.
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