View Poll Results: Pick an X-Men Villains powers

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • Magneto

    11 27.50%
  • Black Queen

    17 42.50%
  • Apocalypse

    16 40.00%
  • Shadow King

    7 17.50%
  • Juggernaut

    5 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31
  1. #16
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Shadow King has been beaten.

    And even if Shadow King increases his mental powers, combine Jean, Charles, Emma, Betsy and Rachel into a psychic team. Shadow King will go down.
    Shadow King could win this if he were smart. If I were he, I would target Xavier in a sneak attack while the X-Men are asleep and beat him. After defeating Xavier, I would possess him thus adding his psychic powers to my own. Now, even with the combined power of Emma, Jean, Betsy and Rachel, SK would win a psi fight.

    Anyway, after adding Xavier's psi to my own, I would go about mentally enslaving the X-Men members who lack the mental defenses to defeat me and then turn them against the very few X-Men whose mental defenses were too strong for me (namely Ororo, Gambit, and Magik). I would, of course, use my psychic powers to augment the power of the X-Men fighting the three X-Men who kept me out of their minds.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,282

    Default

    When Jean faced Shadow King in the '90's, she was nowhere near as powerful as she was just before her death, when she had come into her Omega Level TP/TK powers. That alone makes Jean more powerful and dangerous than Xavier.

    I am not even including any Phoenix powers here.

    And all of the X-Men Psychics have upgraded to some degree from their last meeting with the SK. Combined, they can easily take him.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    On the cosmic shores of the Pacific
    Posts
    2,554

    Default

    Apocalypse...because he probably has vast knowledge and powers that he has yet to tap into given his limited philosophy and narrow objectives. One day he'll wake up and realize that the Earth is just one bauble in a sea of a kajillion baubles. Given that he's had access to Celestial technology, I'm surprised that he doesn't already know that. If I had his powers, I wouldn't have any problems using them to devastating effect.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    When Jean faced Shadow King in the '90's, she was nowhere near as powerful as she was just before her death, when she had come into her Omega Level TP/TK powers. That alone makes Jean more powerful and dangerous than Xavier.

    I am not even including any Phoenix powers here.

    And all of the X-Men Psychics have upgraded to some degree from their last meeting with the SK. Combined, they can easily take him.
    Jean was never anywher near Xavier without the Phoenix Force, though. Just before her death during the Morrison run, Jean had the Phoenix Force which nullifies all of her feats. I can accept Jean beating SK with the Phoenix Force, but not without it.

    Also, I agree that if Xavier, Emma, Jean, Rachel, and Psylocke combined their TP, SK would be toast, however, this is why I had SK take Xavier off the board and add Prof. X's psi powers to his own before taking on the team. Emma, Jean, Rachel, and Psylocke combined would not be a match for Shadow King if King had Xavier's powers added to his own. He would mentally enslave the other four telepaths and use them on his team.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    The reason I don't think Poccy or Magneto would stand a chance against the X-Men is because their powers are mostly limited to the physical plane. Physically, none of the standard X-Men's rogues that they fight on a regular basis can stand up to the team not when you have somebody like Storm on the team and telekinetics like Rachel, Psylocke, and Jean Grey who can combine their TK powers for attacks and defense. Now, if you get a reality controller like Mad Jim Jaspers to fight the X-Men, he could cream the X-Men even with Ororo and the combined psis in the lineup. He can make himself impervious to telepathy with his reality controlling abilities and the team really can't compete with his reality controlling abilities in the physical world. About the only way I can see them beating Jaspers would be for Storm to use her internal attacks or Iceman to draw all of the moisture out of his body before he can strike out with his powers. If he gets a chance to use his powers and if he attacks intelligently, the fight would be over in a blind instance.

    Shadow King and Selene are the two best villains on the list provided by the OP to take on the X-Men. Shadow King doesn't have a corporeal form which limits the effectiveness of powers like Storm's, Iceman's, Rogue's, Cyclops's, etc to hurt him and he is more powerful and more skilled than any telepath on the team. He just needs to do what I said with Xavier to take out the team.

    With Selene, while Shadow King would be a better pick than she with him not having a physical body the super strength and energy wielding characters can hurt, she is the next best pick because of her magic. The X-Men vs. Selene would be almost like them versus Mad Jim Jaspers. If Selene consumes enough life force before taking on the team, she would have psi powers strong enough to beat the combined X-Men psis and her magic would probably be almost as dangerous as Jasper's reality controlling powers. It could prove to be a similar scenario to the team against Jaspers for them to take her out.
    Last edited by rutog98; 07-15-2017 at 05:22 PM.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Bl00dwerK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,225

    Default

    Shadow King, I guess. Seems like a fun way to take on the X-Men.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member JeanGreyForever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    I feel like Shadow King wouldn't be that big of a threat anymore. Psylocke has beat him at least once before on her own and since the Dark Angel Saga, her powers have been boosted to omega-level rivaling the Phoenix. Even back in the 90s during the Psi-War, Jean was supposed to defeat Shadow King after Psylocke fell to him and since she's always been an even more powerful telepath than Xavier, he wouldn't be an issue for her. And of course other psychics like Rachel, Cable, and Franklin could take him too.

  8. #23
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,571

    Default

    The Black Queen <3
    Storm #11 by Greg Pak - May 13th, 2015 Final Issue

    "I can rip the air from your lungs with the force of a hurricane. I can cascade the electrical impulses in your brains and induce a violent seizure. I can freeze your hearts and shatter your veins..." -Storm in Wolverines #6. #Gottalovekarma

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    I feel like Shadow King wouldn't be that big of a threat anymore. Psylocke has beat him at least once before on her own and since the Dark Angel Saga, her powers have been boosted to omega-level rivaling the Phoenix. Even back in the 90s during the Psi-War, Jean was supposed to defeat Shadow King after Psylocke fell to him and since she's always been an even more powerful telepath than Xavier, he wouldn't be an issue for her. And of course other psychics like Rachel, Cable, and Franklin could take him too.
    Psylocke NEVER defeated Shadow King in psychic combat. Heck, in Nightcrawler's solo title, she stated that even with her psi powers combined with the telepathy of Bloody Bess they didn't stand a chance against him in TP combat. In the Psi-War of the 90s, Jean was never supposed to defeat Shadow King either. As a matter of fact, SK stated that Xavier was his only threat, but was removed.

    There is no telepath of greater power, skill, or experience than the Shadow King save if you get a telepath boosted by the Phoenix Force. Well, Legion may be an exception to that as well.

    The ones are who not a theat to the X-Men on this list are Magneto and Apocalypse. Storm alone is more powerful than either of these two characters, and added to the roster is a lineup of Emma, Jean, Rachel, and Psylocke who can combine their psi for mega TP and TK attacks. A combined TK assault from Jean, Psylocke, and Rachel is also more raw physical power than either Magneto or Poccy can handle. So, to have Storm PLUS the combined TK of Jean, Rachel, and Betsy is well beyond overkill. Also, IIRC, Emma knows how to use her telepathy to boost the power of other mutants.

    Bottom line is you're not gonna beat the X-Men with physical powers unless you have reality controlling abilities ala Mad Jim Jaspers or something equally devastating as his powerset. Otherwise, its just PIS.
    Last edited by rutog98; 07-16-2017 at 06:20 PM.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member JeanGreyForever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Psylocke trapped Shadow King which counts as a defeat imo. It's not just about power and skill but also ingenuity. Plus Psylocke has been an omega-level mutant since UXF and her telepathy is on a Phoenix level which was always powerful enough to even affect the physical world back in her debut in the X-Men comics. Kelly and Seagle always planned for Psi-War to end with Jean defeating Shadow King himself. There was an unused cover with Psylocke unconscious and being cradled by Jean who is bracing herself for battle. But they had to kick Scott and Jean out of the X-Books which is why that never happened, but otherwise Jean would have been the victor. Shadow King's archrival is Xavier which is why he says that.

    The Phoenix Force point is moot because it's been established that Jean has had a connection to the Phoenix Force since conception which can be said about no other character except Jean's children and Hope who could also fit into that bracket. Her very mutation (or secondary mutation) is to harness the Phoenix Force, so the Phoenix is part of her arsenal of powers and not just an outside alien force that sometimes possesses her.

    I can think of several people who could beat Shadow King in either skill or power. Xavier was able to defeat him in their first battle. Jean is an even stronger telepath than Xavier and all her children have her powers. Psylocke too with her omega status must be on a Jean level if not a bit below. Not to mention the mutants on the fringe of the X-Books like Franklin, Legion, etc.

  11. #26

    Default

    Black Queen she's a bit more vicious than Apoc in achieving her goals. He pops up far too often and always seems easily taken down in comparison. Selene actually scares me.

    Shadow King is a one trick pony. He's a formidable opponent, but usually almost always gets taken down.

    I don't think he's ever come into conflict with Emma and definitely not the Cuckoos. Emma felt the effects of the astral plane being locked up, but he's never gone up against her and I think that's interesting considering their abilities.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,339

    Default

    Selene definitely. She's way more versatile and deadly than the others, although with Celestial technology, Apocalypse can also get it done.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    Psylocke trapped Shadow King which counts as a defeat imo. It's not just about power and skill but also ingenuity. Plus Psylocke has been an omega-level mutant since UXF and her telepathy is on a Phoenix level which was always powerful enough to even affect the physical world back in her debut in the X-Men comics. Kelly and Seagle always planned for Psi-War to end with Jean defeating Shadow King himself. There was an unused cover with Psylocke unconscious and being cradled by Jean who is bracing herself for battle. But they had to kick Scott and Jean out of the X-Books which is why that never happened, but otherwise Jean would have been the victor. Shadow King's archrival is Xavier which is why he says that.

    The Phoenix Force point is moot because it's been established that Jean has had a connection to the Phoenix Force since conception which can be said about no other character except Jean's children and Hope who could also fit into that bracket. Her very mutation (or secondary mutation) is to harness the Phoenix Force, so the Phoenix is part of her arsenal of powers and not just an outside alien force that sometimes possesses her.

    I can think of several people who could beat Shadow King in either skill or power. Xavier was able to defeat him in their first battle. Jean is an even stronger telepath than Xavier and all her children have her powers. Psylocke too with her omega status must be on a Jean level if not a bit below. Not to mention the mutants on the fringe of the X-Books like Franklin, Legion, etc.
    1) Regarding Psylocke vs. Shadow King, your take on her defeating him in "Psi-War" doesn't make any sense. The way she won would be like Jubilee sneaking up on Magneto while he as naked with no force-field or body armor and while his attention was totally focused on talking to somebody on the phone and she sneak attacks him with a blast while he's distracted with all of his defenses down. Sure, under those circumstances, Jubilee can take down Magneto, however, in open combat, no way. The same holds true for Betsy vs. Shadow King.

    2) Your claims about Betsy being a Phoenix Force-wielding level psi is preposterous. When Psylocke starts devouring stars without being possessed by the Phoenix Force, then that claim will have more meaning. Any story that stated Betsy is Phoenix Force level has no credence.

    3) Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force was that she was a suitable host for it. She clearly is not Phoenix Force level right now nor was she Phoenix Force level in the 90s when she was not possessed by it. This is very clear in canon. The whole business about her secondary mutation being a suitable host to the PF is null and void now since anybody can wield the PF as of AvX.

    4) Xavier beat Shadow King in their first battle because SK toyed around with him. While the two were equal in power, SK dwarfed Xavier in terms of skill and experience. Noticing his advantage, the Shadow King chose to play around with his "food", so to speak, instead of just taking Prof. X down. Xavier took advantage of this to win the fight. Xavier won this match not because of superior power, skill, or experience (again, SK had him beat in skill and experience and was his equal in terms of raw power), but because of SK's own foolishness.

    5) Without the Phoenix Force possession, Jean Grey is nothing to write home about. While she is still a powerful psi, she doesn't approach the Xavier and Shadow King class.

  14. #29
    Incredible Member JeanGreyForever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    978

    Default

    1) Your take doesn't make any sense. Betsy didn't accidentally trip and trap Shadow King that way. She won the battle and succeeded in keeping him locked away for years. That is a definite win which is even more impressive since at the time, her telepathy was majorly nerfed and not up to par. Yet she still succeeded in beating him. I don't think he came back until Worlds Apart then unless the Shadow King in New Excalibur was not an alternate version of him.

    2) Rick Rememender himself said that in the Dark Angel Saga, after AoA Jean unlocks Betsy's full powers, she manifests a psychic butterfly that is supposed to be reminiscent of the Phoenix. I'm not saying that Betsy can suddenly become Phoenix and devour a sun, because her powers run on a different spectrum. I'm saying that her powers are on a similar level which makes sense since she is an omega-level mutant. And frankly, you can argue about a lot of things in the MU as having no credence.

    3) Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force as established by Chris Claremont and Grant Morrison is that it was literally part of her mutation to wield the Phoenix Force. It was very much in her genetic code and powers which is why Death told her it could be passed off to her children like Rachel, Cable, Nate, Stryfe, etc. all who could wield the Phoenix as well. Jean has never been possessed by the Phoenix except for brief periods in Endsong when the Phoenix was shattered and confused but even then it wasn't really a possession. Not anyone can wield the Phoenix Force. The Phoenix Five all had the capability. Cyclops has a connection with Jean so he could take the Phoenix. Colossus was already host to another powerful entity which is one of the most powerful in the entire MU, so that would allow him to withstand the Phoenix. Magik has the mystical capabilities to hold the Phoenix or any immense power. Emma got a vision from Jean where Jean used her own power on Emma to "prepare" her which was likely her giving Emma the ability to wield the Phoenix. Namor is immensely strong and his genetic coding as an Atleantean-human hybrid could allow him to wield the Phoenix. It isn't like someone like Maggot was the Phoenix Force host.

    4) Xavier won that battle fair and square, because Shadow King begins to realize how dangerous Xavier is. It's a close battle, and despite how it started off, Shadow King realized Xavier is his equal in power. This is why he needed Legion, because Legion's powers would amplify his own, not to mention Xavier would be reluctant to hurt him then.

    5) Plenty of evidence points against this, but you seem to stubborn to consider it. Even in the 90s, Jean was able to fly around in the cosmos with ease. She has penetrated Juggernaut's helmet even back in her Marvel Girl days, when even Xavier couldn't. Magneto when under a psi-assault, thought only Xavier could be capable of it, but it was Jean behind it. In Morrison's run against Cassandra Nova, it is Jean who frees Xavier and beats Nova by performing a stunt that Xavier acknowledges even he couldn't do. She wasn't possessed by the Phoenix then.

  15. #30
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    The other side
    Posts
    215

    Default

    Out of the list I will take the Black Queen Selene, high end magic is a game changer. However someone not on the list I would take is Onslaught, he was a true powerhouse.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •