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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Old School Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Funny scene
    Last edited by Old School Ollie 1962; 08-10-2017 at 06:01 PM.

  2. #77
    Incredible Member Black Angel's Avatar
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    Man i don't know how people even like Injustice Batman the worse incarnation yet. Even Animal Man had to call him on his BS

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L. View Post
    Weirdly enough so do I. He actually collaborates with Diana ("Boys share too"), he introduces himself as Superman's friend to his mother and generally Affleck doesn't play the character as a jerk. Except when he intends to kill a good man with no evidence of him doing anything wrong. In these scenes he doesn't act like a jerk, he acts like a villain.

    I didn't mean with my comment that I found Batfleck to be a jerk, I found his characterization to be nonsensical.
    For some reason, making him a full blown antagonist still makes him more likeable than...whatever it is we were saddled with in the Dixon era. It's FAR from my ideal characterization, but there's no BS attached to it, and I enjoy making Superman the sympathetic one for a change.

    Like you said, Affleck seems to have an innate likeability in the part, as if the old Bruce is slowly coming back after going over the edge. I like the story of redemption they have for him...provided they stick with it, unlike the comics were Bruce frequently got Aesop amnesia because we needed more drama.

  4. #79
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    For some reason, making him a full blown antagonist still makes him more likeable than...whatever it is we were saddled with in the Dixon era. It's FAR from my ideal characterization, but there's no BS attached to it, and I enjoy making Superman the sympathetic one for a change.

    Like you said, Affleck seems to have an innate likeability in the part, as if the old Bruce is slowly coming back after going over the edge. I like the story of redemption they have for him...provided they stick with it, unlike the comics were Bruce frequently got Aesop amnesia because we needed more drama.
    I think the Batman you're thinking of is more from the Rucka/Brubacker era, though I don't think he was that bad aside from some specific (and really glaring) issues or storylines.

  5. #80
    SUPREME BEING DIVINITY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    It has nothing to do with power levels, who can beat who. I like him being a dick simply because I find it more entertaining.
    I enjoy Superman the most when he is in full on Superdickery mode.
    This...

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  6. #81
    Mighty Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I've never really been able to put a finger on why I was cold on the Dixon era whereas everyone else seemingly loved it, but I think you guys nailed it. It wasn't TDKR or Year One that got Bat-Dick going in earnest, it started here. The bolded part especially rings true. Nobody seemed to like him, there was no happiness in the family Bruce built for himself, at least none actually aimed at him. Which defeats the whole point. They all seemed to love each other and regarded Bat-Douche as a pain in the ass. Compared to the warmth of the Bronze age or even the interactions in the Morrison run, Dixon's Bat-era seems unpleasant.

    The nicest thing I can say about Dixon's legacy is that he wrote a good Joker and gave us the Birds of Prey, but otherwise...
    Pre-Zero Hour, Bruce wasn't that bad. The Robins had good memories of the good man that Bruce was when he raised/trained them. He first started getting cold and darker when Jason Todd was killed, but he was still pretty decent guy during/after Knightfall/Knightsend. It wasn't really until the Zero Hour reboot that had him go all black costume and start scaring and intimidating his 'family', Making preperations to neutralize every hero ever...

    Honestly, I see the whole thing as pushback from the 60's show. Once the Burton movies and stuff came out fans wanted to get as far as possible away from the friendly batman who referred to Robin as 'chum' and was buddies with Commissioner Gordon. They wanted the dark avenger of the night who could do anything to anyone.... and actually compete with the Wolverine popularity that was running rampant in the 90's. I've long believed that they pushed WAY too far. Cold, Dark Batjerk would never have adopted and raised a Robin and would never have had such an extended family like Batman had (Part of the reason that so many stories have to work around robin existing or try to write out batgirl's existence..) The Batgod narrative just doesn't work.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    I absolutely despise Frank Miller's influence on Batman. He likes to claim "He gave Batman back his balls" No his Batman is a borderline Psychopath. The Dark Knight returned with Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams not Frank Miller.

  8. #83
    Mighty Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I absolutely despise Frank Miller's influence on Batman. He likes to claim "He gave Batman back his balls" No his Batman is a borderline Psychopath. The Dark Knight returned with Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams not Frank Miller.
    Agreed. O'neil's was cool He was more serious, but not the psychopath. I'd love if the world would FINALLY start swinging back away from Miller. I really hate him getting referenced in EVERYTHING...

  9. #84
    Incredible Member
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    Yet he rises above these character flaws or perhaps utilizes these character flaws to be a great hero. Kind of makes for an interesting character.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the Batman you're thinking of is more from the Rucka/Brubacker era, though I don't think he was that bad aside from some specific (and really glaring) issues or storylines.
    I think when Rucka/Brubaker did Bat-jerk, they took it to the next level, but Dixon was still bad as well. I read the first chapter of Nightwing Year One in the book store once, and I put it back on the shelf in disgust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I absolutely despise Frank Miller's influence on Batman. He likes to claim "He gave Batman back his balls" No his Batman is a borderline Psychopath. The Dark Knight returned with Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams not Frank Miller.
    Miller's Batman, at least back when TDKR and Year One were his only entries, wasn't actually as bad as what came after. He threatens to fire Carrie if she screws up, but never actually does and constantly gives her positive reinforcement ("Good soldier," etc.). He still shows a lot of compassion to Two-Face. He's very idealistic and non-dickish in Year One.

    I do agree that O'Neil/Adams and also Englehart/Rogers are the better, more balanced takes though.

  11. #86
    Mighty Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I think when Rucka/Brubaker did Bat-jerk, they took it to the next level, but Dixon was still bad as well. I read the first chapter of Nightwing Year One in the book store once, and I put it back on the shelf in disgust.
    Weirdly enought that story was made years after his run on Batman has ended.

  12. #87
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think when Rucka/Brubaker did Bat-jerk, they took it to the next level, but Dixon was still bad as well. I read the first chapter of Nightwing Year One in the book store once, and I put it back on the shelf in disgust.
    I haven't actually read that, but most of what I've read of Dixon's Batman through his Nightwing/Robin/Knightfall/etc seemed pretty reasonable and balanced compared to later 90's Batman.

  13. #88
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    I thought Nightwing Year One was the Devin Grayson storyline...
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I thought Nightwing Year One was the Devin Grayson storyline...
    I looked it up. It's by Dixon.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-12-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  15. #90
    Mighty Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I looked it up. It's by Dixon.
    Yeah, he returned to the book in issue 101 to 106 if my memory doesn't fail.

    I haven't actually read that, but mot of what I've read of Dixon's Batman through his Nightwing/Robin/Knightfall/etc seemed pretty reasonable and balanced compared to later 90's Batman.
    It didn't became a problem until around 96/97 or so if i remenber correctly, but those stories usually ended with Bruce learning his lesson. I thought that it would end after NML but for some reason Brubaker and Rucka decided to take it to the next level, because they wanted to deconstruct that trope with Bruce Wayne Fugitive or at least i think than that was the reason.
    Last edited by TheCape; 08-12-2017 at 08:47 AM.

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