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  1. #16
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    Not all of the Batfamily need to be blood related. Most of them aren't, and that's fine, because family doesn't need to literally be blood to be family. In fact, only 2 current members of the Batfamily are blood related to Batman (sorry to Bette/Hawkfire/Flambird fans - but I suspect she doesn't count as Batfamily for the time being).

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    In the movies--and even in the comics--there seems to be an argument that Bruce should not and would not involve a child in his mission. This is why screen versions are likely to have Robin/Nightwing as 18 or older, just to avoid that problem.

    But separate the two things--Grayson as the adopted son, Robin as the sidekick. If Bruce has a reason to bring Richard Grayson into his house (ignoring the whole sidekick question), then it makes sense why a young Richard Grayson is there.

    Ben Affleck's Batman seems to be around 40 years old (Affleck is almost 45), so it's reasonable that he could have a son that grows up to be Nightwing.
    The argument of involving a young child would still remain. normal folk don't dress their children in bright colours and have them fight crime also young Richard isn't the only child Batman took in. We know Jason is in this universe.

    Besides Dick is Bruce's son. I like that Bruce who lost his family created his own starting with Dick. It's great that he was able to help a young boy in a similar situation to him.
    Last edited by dietrich; 07-15-2017 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #18
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    When Dick first appeared on the scene in the 1930's, it wasn't THAT far removed from the Victorian/Edwardian age (about the turn of the 20th century) in which it was much more common for a parent to die when the offspring was a teenager or young enough not to be out on their own, and a relative would take in the young person as a "ward" to the extent that they would provide food, clothing, shelter, perhaps an education, perhaps make a marriage for them, things like that. And Bruce wasn't that young--he was smoking a pipe and wearing felt hats, etc. Dick was clearly a child of 8-12, and Bruce was at least thirty-ish. Bruce did try to adopt him.

    Dick was legally adopted in Gotham Knight (#18, I think). HOWEVER, this appears to have gone by the wayside in DC's processes of rebooting and cherry-picking "canonical" items on its usual willy-nilly basis. Judging by the more recent utterances from Bruce, Jason's adoption is still canon while Dick's has been discarded. It appears to me that whenever there is a choice to make between old canons when regurgitating the newest canon, in Dick Grayson's case, they ALWAYS for the choice that presents Dick in the more negative fashion. The painstaking development of Robin growing up to become his own man Nightwing, even unto choosing his successor --has never been reinstated. Rather, the character assassination work of Max Allen Collins is allowed to stand--Dick was stupid, Dick was incompetent, Dick got fired. Dick flunks out of college, Dick gets fired from being Robin--man, he's such a damned LOOZER. He deserves to be treated like a winner.

  4. #19
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Dick will always be the adopted son of Bruce to me.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    And Bruce wasn't that young--he was smoking a pipe and wearing felt hats, etc. Dick was clearly a child of 8-12, and Bruce was at least thirty-ish. Bruce did try to adopt him.
    Don't know Bruce imo often written like guy around 40, even if he was supposed to be younger.
    IIRC in the comics back than the only thing that was fixed about Bruce age was that his parents died 15 years ago, so he was probaly still in his 20s back than.

    If you by the modern (pre flashpoint) time line, Jason and Tim could probably be his sons but but Dick would be to old, in the new 52 even they would be to old.

  6. #21
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Dick was legally adopted in Gotham Knight (#18, I think). HOWEVER, this appears to have gone by the wayside in DC's processes of rebooting and cherry-picking "canonical" items on its usual willy-nilly basis. Judging by the more recent utterances from Bruce, Jason's adoption is still canon while Dick's has been discarded. It appears to me that whenever there is a choice to make between old canons when regurgitating the newest canon, in Dick Grayson's case, they ALWAYS for the choice that presents Dick in the more negative fashion. The painstaking development of Robin growing up to become his own man Nightwing, even unto choosing his successor --has never been reinstated. Rather, the character assassination work of Max Allen Collins is allowed to stand--Dick was stupid, Dick was incompetent, Dick got fired. Dick flunks out of college, Dick gets fired from being Robin--man, he's such a damned LOOZER. He deserves to be treated like a winner.
    All that for one issue, now imagine how a whole fanbase of a character felt with the loser tag for over 15 years.

    Technically, Max Collins didn`t wrote Dick being fired. He wrote Dick having a bad day against the Joker which enacted an argument in the plot about whereas Robin was still necessary or not (said argument finishes with both agreeing he was growing up, becoming a man and should take his own path - whataLOSER), which carried onto Jason. Starlin was the one who went with Dick being fired to create extra drama if memory serves, hence the infamious verbal boxing in Batman#416.

    And truly, I take no sympathy with the argument that botching one case makes anyone stupid because if that`s the case, every single one of them are bloody stupid. I recall a thread where a poster challenged me to find exemples of Tim screwing up or acting cocky and in the period post Knightfall alone I easily came up with six different scenes. That`s Tim "the seriously serious Robin". Dick Grayson? Even in Teen Titans he wasn`t infallible and that`s by far the most consistantly great depiction of Dick as Robin ever - to me at least.
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  7. #22
    Incredible Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    In fact, only 2 current members of the Batfamily are blood related to Batman (sorry to Bette/Hawkfire/Flambird fans - but I suspect she doesn't count as Batfamily for the time being).
    And this is a crime and travesty. (For me.)

    Making Dick the biological son of Bruce would make those crushes Bette had on Dick more than a little awkward.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Making Dick the biological son of Bruce would make those crushes Bette had on Dick more than a little awkward.
    Why?
    Unless the two of them became first cousins, they can still marry. How directly connected is Bette to Bruce?

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    No, unless Bruce and Mary conceived him when they were teenagers. They are essentially father and son/older brother-little brother anyway and Dick is Bruce's #1 heir. his wouldn't change anything in any meaningful way except makes things needlessly complicated (see also: Barbara being Jim's niece).

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Why?
    Unless the two of them became first cousins, they can still marry. How directly connected is Bette to Bruce?
    I think she IS is first cousin.

    I always thought making Martha a Kane was dumb. Geoff Johns didn't have many good Bat-related ideas, but making Martha an Arkham is a winner.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Making Dick the biological son of Bruce would make those crushes Bette had on Dick more than a little awkward.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Why?
    Unless the two of them became first cousins, they can still marry. How directly connected is Bette to Bruce?
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think she IS his first cousin.
    Kate and Bruce are confirmed first cousins (mentioned/shown multiple times in the current 'tec run), and Bette was confirmed in Batwoman's first series to be Kate's cousin.

    Kate is a Kane, and Bette is also a Kane.

    It hasn't been specifically stated that Bette and Bruce are first cousins (just that they are indeed cousins), but all of the evidence points in that direction.

    I'd be surprised if it's revealed that they aren't, rather than that they are.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 07-16-2017 at 07:36 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    All that for one issue, now imagine how a whole fanbase of a character felt with the loser tag for over 15 years.

    Technically, Max Collins didn`t wrote Dick being fired. He wrote Dick having a bad day against the Joker which enacted an argument in the plot about whereas Robin was still necessary or not (said argument finishes with both agreeing he was growing up, becoming a man and should take his own path - whataLOSER), which carried onto Jason. Starlin was the one who went with Dick being fired to create extra drama if memory serves, hence the infamious verbal boxing in Batman#416.
    Imo it would be the best if they would just make Batman Adventures the Lost Year canon (with Jason in place of Tim), the storyline is much better than any version they did in the main continuity maybe with exception of the the pre crisis version.

  12. #27
    Old Fogey Ebon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    You don't think the legal limitations on how long a non-adult's work day can be might also play a part in having Dick Grayson closer to 18 in a movie version?
    I hardly think Health and Human Services has jurisdiction over the activities of Batman and Robin. Unless you're talking about the actor. Most 'teenaged' actors you see (Like the new Spider-Man; Tom Holland is 21) are actually in their twenties specifically to get around this and a few other problems. Actually teenaged actors are rarer - many may be emancipated minors, in which case the manage their own affairs like any adult with a few restrictions. CA requires a work permit for younger actors who are not emancipated, generally says you can't work more than five consecutive days and need to account for school.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    If you by the modern (pre flashpoint) time line, Jason and Tim could probably be his sons but but Dick would be to old, in the new 52 even they would be to old.
    Adoptions can be done at ANY age. If I wanted to adopt my 88 year-old hag of a mother-in-law as my legal daughter (and she was willing to go along with it), I would be legally entitled to do so--if I coughed up all the legal fees.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Kate and Bruce are confirmed first cousins (mentioned/shown multiple times in the current 'tec run), and Bette was confirmed in Batwoman's first series to be Kate's cousin.

    Kate is a Kane, and Bette is also a Kane.

    It hasn't been specifically stated that Bette and Bruce are first cousins (just that they are indeed cousins), but all of the evidence points in that direction.

    I'd be surprised if it's revealed that they aren't, rather than that they are.
    I have a buddy who has two of his first cousins get married. While they were both first cousin to him, they were (I believe) second cousins to each other.

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I know this isn't part of established comic book continuity. But I started thinking about it in terms of the current movie Batman and it made sense to me that Grayson could be the son of Batman--and that would be a way to make Robin/Nightwing work in the movie universe.

    In the old days, it couldn't happen, because Bruce couldn't have a child out of wedlock, what with the Comcs Code. But that's no longer a moral red line in comics. And Bruce is a father to Damian, so it's clearly acceptable for Bruce to have offpspring.

    That Bruce is the real father of Richard Grayson explains why he would go to see the boy perform at a circus--maybe he has just found out that Richard is his biological son and he's come to the circus to confront Mary, only to see her die before he has the chance. And that explains why he takes in Richard after Mary and John Grayson are killed.
    Plenty of people here have already made points defending Dicks status as an adopted son and his relationship with Bruce, but may I ask, what exactly would be the benefit of having Dick be a biological child of Bruce rather than an adopted one?

    Your example gives a reason as to why Bruce would take Dick in, at least in terms of moral obligation, however it doesnt seem like the most ideal scenario since it derives itself from consequences of infidelity/extramarital affairs, unwanted pregnancy? (perhaps), all of which only serves to characterize either Bruce/Mary/John badly. As such I feel as though a more appropriate scenario could be conjured as to why Bruce takes Dick in, without the biological connection.

    So I have to ask, is there any reasoning in particular that you have for this being the desired direction for the film and characters? (hypothetically)

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