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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I had read Wonder Woman in the past (the past century), but hadn't really been following her stuff for many years. Started reading comic books in general again around 2010-2011 but only a couple of issues of pre-New52 Wonder Woman, and hadn't planned on buying the New52 run. But after looking over an issue (#4?) I got curious enough to start following it, and I truly found the run to be an interesting alternate take to what I had read and enjoyed in the past.
    I was going to try the Finch run after Azzarello & Chiang were done, but worried it would follow the Geoff Johns/JL model instead of what Azzarello and Chiang had done. Seeing the preview and the line about "vegetative injustice" just convinced me to not even bother buying it at all.


    I'm glad that you enjoyed it. I just think it was a very bad move for the character in general. Every run has it's fans and critics.....
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, The Terrifics, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  2. #47
    Fantastic Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I'd argue that Jimenez breathed some life into Angle Man, with his take on Angelo Bend, but mileage may very depending on if you like his gentleman thief characterization. For a gimmick character, I found the new take intersting.
    I did too, Jimenez made the best version of Angle Man and his take should have lasted longer.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Despite all of the criticisms of Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman being valid, I still think it's really fun, and I still think it would be much more appreciated if it was out of continuity. (Like Wonder Woman Earth One or if it was at Marvel Wonder Woman MAX.) Also, I sort of liked, actually that's the wrong word, -- accepted the "Amazon Rape Pirates" retcon, because this is something the Amazons in Greek Mythology would probably do, and yes the Amazons in the Wonder Woman mythos are sort of a... more positive version of the Amazons of myth, but Azzarello's Wonder Woman is essentially a reboot, so he changed the Amazons to be more like the "historical" Amazons.

  4. #49
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Time-out.

    Was it specifically just Azzarello saying it was a "soft reboot"?
    As far as I was aware, that was the company's description of the New52 in general. Was Azzarello saying what that because he was the only one believing it was a "soft reboot", or was he repeating what DiDio and others claimed?
    Specifically, here's the interview portion in question:

    [Laughs] Her origin’s intact, okay? This is a real soft reboot.

    Her origin’s intact, so…

    It’s intact. Listen, her origin’s intact. [Laughs] I’m not doing anything with her origin in issue one. Maybe later.
    That's one of the things that really put me off Azzarello once he changed the origin. Not issue one...issue three. It came across as highly disingenuous.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Specifically, here's the interview portion in question:



    That's one of the things that really put me off Azzarello once he changed the origin. Not issue one...issue three. It came across as highly disingenuous.

    That statement was the furthest thing from the truth considering the origin that Diana believe was revealed to be a straight up lie from Hippolyta to hide her adulterous affair with Zeus. This was a clear case of bait & switch.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, The Terrifics, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    I think the worst was when in the 1960s they thought that imitating the golden age Marston/Peter's style, the WW series would have had high sales like in the good ol' days.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Azzarello run SHOULD NOT be paired with Finches run. I'm not a picky reader when it comes to comics so I'm not really a good judge on consistent quality but Finches run was the worst thing I've ever read from WW. Azzarello run got me hooked on WW and made me read Wondy's previous runs like Simone's and Heinburgs which I enjoyed.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    When a writer can get me to drop comics outright and never go back, that would be in my definition a very bad, awful run!
    I still think the fact that it got people talking so much gives it some merit. That still puts it way ahead of the majority of WW works, most of which elicit a "meh" or are unanimously agreed to be just crap (Amazon Attack, Mod era, Finch, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Despite all of the criticisms of Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman being valid, I still think it's really fun, and I still think it would be much more appreciated if it was out of continuity. (Like Wonder Woman Earth One or if it was at Marvel Wonder Woman MAX.) Also, I sort of liked, actually that's the wrong word, -- accepted the "Amazon Rape Pirates" retcon, because this is something the Amazons in Greek Mythology would probably do, and yes the Amazons in the Wonder Woman mythos are sort of a... more positive version of the Amazons of myth, but Azzarello's Wonder Woman is essentially a reboot, so he changed the Amazons to be more like the "historical" Amazons.
    I actually enjoy it much more now that we're not stuck with it.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    While that may be a questionable piece of dialogue, it didn't even come close to tarnishing Wonder Woman as much as this did:


    I rather take this than that panel of WW crying about bugs going in her hair...

  10. #55
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    But here's the thing, several of those critics flat out said they had never really or at all read Wonder Woman before Azzarello's run and then some of them even had the gall to call it the "Best WW Run Ever". At the end of the day, what is critical acclaim beyond some favorable opinions from people.
    You don't need to have read any of the previous runs that the "Watchmen" characters were involved in to know that Watchmen is probably the best run they will ever be a part of.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    You don't need to have read any of the previous runs that the "Watchmen" characters were involved in to know that Watchmen is probably the best run they will ever be a part of.
    The Watchmen characters didn't exist before Watchmen*, whereas Wonder Woman had a following looooooong before Azzarello. Also, the opinion is just uninformed. Especially as many of the things Azzarello did were done already, arguably done better, and addressed "problems" that were old news. Like how many times have we heard that the Amazons were boring and "perfect" before the New 52, only to have that be completely false?

    *Yeah, yeah, I know they're expies of pre-existing characters, but Moore's versions began and (until a few years ago) ended with him.

  12. #57
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The Watchmen characters didn't exist before Watchmen*, whereas Wonder Woman had a following looooooong before Azzarello. Also, the opinion is just uninformed. Especially as many of the things Azzarello did were done already, arguably done better, and addressed "problems" that were old news. Like how many times have we heard that the Amazons were boring and "perfect" before the New 52, only to have that be completely false?

    *Yeah, yeah, I know they're expies of pre-existing characters, but Moore's versions began and (until a few years ago) ended with him.
    Take a close look at the runs. Azzarello's ended at the close of his run.

  13. #58
    Fantastic Member BrianWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    While that may be a questionable piece of dialogue, it didn't even come close to tarnishing Wonder Woman as much as this did:


    Man, I'd forgotten about this scene, but it really just illustrates how hollow Azzarello's idea of a "strong, feminist woman" is, which kinda sums up his attitude towards Diana in general.

    Like of course the only recourse towards misogyny is to resort to sexualized violence in return, to physically mutilate someone, particularly their manhood. How badass lol! How Amazonian lol! Clearly women who don't take your ish are just hankering to lop off your genitalia!

    Like, it genuinely would have annoyed me much less if Diana had in fact just punched him (which she did do, later); it's the whole addition of Diana as some sexy destroyer of penises -- and there's a term for this kind of psychological complex -- that makes Azzarello's methods here so transparent.

    So say nothing of him turning Orion from your basic aggro warrior guy into Guy Gardner with even less filters (and even that's kinda insulting to Guy!).

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Take a close look at the runs. Azzarello's ended at the close of his run.
    Wonder Woman didn't spring forth from his imagination the way the Minutemen came from Moore's. So no, not the same. Watchmen is a self contained graphic novel, whereas WW was continued (as she always is) by the next author, and it went to crap immediately.

    An uninformed fan coming to Wonder Woman with him and finding something to enjoy, and maybe moving on to something else when he leaves, is one thing. Deciding it must be the best thing she's ever been in with zero knowledge of anything that came before is another thing entirely. It's just seems so silly, especially for a character who has been around as long as her.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Gemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    You could surely state who is the worse writer for the character overall, (For example, you could say Geoff Johns is the worst Wonder Woman writer even though he hasn't wrote a single Wonder Woman story), but I'm asking for the worst era for Wonder Woman comics, not a specific run or writer.
    Well in that case I guess when her creator died back in the 40's/50's. Mod era was pretty bad and so was the New 52 they both just changed the character into something totally different for no good reason.

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