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  1. #226
    Astonishing Member WhiteQueenEmmaFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Glad I'm not the only one who found Diana's behavior and personality to be downright dumb & childish in WW. Even, to a lesser extent, she still acts ignorant in the modern era.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Pretty much all the points White Queen pointed out before.

    There's dumb and there's naive, and she just came off more like the former. I mean I hate to bring the MCU into this, but since that's the best comparison, I'll say look at Thor for a good example of naive. Comparatively, Diana just seems very childish to me. She doesn't act like a fish out of water, she just straight up acts like a child, even back on Themyscira. Somebody 5000 yrs old should have a sense of tact and maturity to them, and she had none of that whatsoever.

    Look ni further than how she handles the Germans attacking Themyscira, versus how her Amazon sisters do. They are all as baffled by all that was going on at the time, but they buckled up and fought. She was pretty much a deer in headlights.

    Overall, the story and character was written too much in line with Little Mermaid, and for that reason, I understand why it resonates with most people so well. But, as someone who has read Wonder Woman comics, she simply isn't my Wonder Woman.
    Thank you. The 'tact' was a big part of it for me. She was openly shouting that she needed to kill Ares because it would end the war...in public. If Ares was controlling the war wouldn't you keep that a bit more quiet? Her behavior didn't match any of the Amazons in personality or physically. Someone I work with commented that she didn't like how Gal wasn't as fit as the other women. She's in good shape, but didn't have the definition as some of the other Amazons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Diana had zero experience in battle compared to the other Amazons. That was why she was taken by surprise. Hell, she had zero experience of anything outside the island. She'd never even seen other children before.
    She was trained for combat & battle by the other Amazons. They didn't hold back, but she stood there like she didn't know what to do even though she was being trained from a young age.

  2. #227
    Ultimate Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    Thank you. The 'tact' was a big part of it for me. She was openly shouting that she needed to kill Ares because it would end the war...in public. If Ares was controlling the war wouldn't you keep that a bit more quiet? Her behavior didn't match any of the Amazons in personality or physically. Someone I work with commented that she didn't like how Gal wasn't as fit as the other women. She's in good shape, but didn't have the definition as some of the other Amazons.
    That still doesn't make her stupid. Just unlearned in the art of tact. On PI, it can easily be argued that tact isn't something she would've had much need for. She was the only child on the island. It's not hard to imagine that the Amazons just let her get away with saying whatever because "She's a child. What do we expect?"

    Her personality? She was the only child on the island. She was raised in an idyllic environment and sheltered by her mother for a good chunk of her life. She rarely if ever faced true hardship or adversity. The other Amazons were battle-hardened veterans of countless wars who had also suffered persecution, rape, and slavery.

    Yeah, I think it's safe to assume Diana would be a very different person when compared to such women.

    Those other women were specifically hired for the job because they were body builders and fitness models. Gal is s former supermodel turned actor. The Amazons were hired to stand around looking tough. For Diana, they needed someone who could look good....AND do that whole "acting" thing.

    Yeah it would've been nice if they could've gotten a fitness model who can also act to play Diana, but if you can only have one or the other, acting trumps muscles every time.

    She was trained for combat & battle by the other Amazons. They didn't hold back, but she stood there like she didn't know what to do even though she was being trained from a young age.
    All the training in the world DOES NOT prepare you to respond perfectly in a life or death scenario. I have a friend who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he told me that when a new recruit joins a combat unit, the veterans in the unit pretty much EXPECT that recruit to freeze in his/her first taste of combat. That's why the veterans tend to stick close to the rookies, so they can look out for them and help them hold it together.

    And again: she froze for a whopping three seconds or so before she went straight to kicking ass too. A momentary freeze from which she quickly recovers is also not proof of stupidity. Just proof that Diana isn't perfect: something we Wonder Woman fans FREQUENTLY claim we don't want her to be.
    Last edited by Vanguard-01; 12-07-2017 at 10:28 AM.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  3. #228
    Astonishing Member WhiteQueenEmmaFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    That still doesn't make her stupid. Just unlearned in the art of tact. On PI, it can easily be argued that tact isn't something she would've had much need for. She was the only child on the island. It's not hard to imagine that the Amazons just let her get away with saying whatever because "She's a child. What do we expect?"

    Her personality? She was the only child on the island. She was raised in an idyllic environment and sheltered by her mother for a good chunk of her life. She rarely if ever faced true hardship or adversity. The other Amazons were battle-hardened veterans of countless wars who had also suffered persecution, rape, and slavery.

    Yeah, I think it's safe to assume Diana would be a very different person when compared to such women.

    Those other women were specifically hired for the job because they were body builders and fitness models. Gal is s former supermodel turned actor. The Amazons were hired to stand around looking tough. For Diana, they needed someone who could look good....AND do that whole "acting" thing.

    Yeah it would've been nice if they could've gotten a fitness model who can also act to play Diana, but if you can only have one or the other, acting trumps muscles every time.



    All the training in the world DOES NOT prepare you to respond perfectly in a life or death scenario. I have a friend who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he told me that when a new recruit joins a combat unit, the veterans in the unit pretty much EXPECT that recruit to freeze in his/her first taste of combat. That's why the veterans tend to stick close to the rookies, so they can look out for them and help them hold it together.

    And again: she froze for a whopping three seconds or so before she went straight to kicking ass too. A momentary freeze from which she quickly recovers is also not proof of stupidity. Just proof that Diana isn't perfect: something we Wonder Woman fans FREQUENTLY claim we don't want her to be.
    Even compared to Robin Wright, who is almost 20 years older, she wasn't as fit.

    Everything that Antiope was saying to her while she was training and how she was trained seemed to have fallen on deaf ears.

    Marik said it better than I did that she acted more like a child and there's a difference between being naive about Man's world and just being dim.

    Gal's portrayal was far from perfect.

  4. #229
    Ultimate Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteQueenEmmaFrost View Post
    Even compared to Robin Wright, who is almost 20 years older, she wasn't as fit.
    You've heard of this thing called "body types" right? Some people's bodies respond differently to training and exercise.

    Everything that Antiope was saying to her while she was training and how she was trained seemed to have fallen on deaf ears.
    Nope. She forgot her training for three seconds because she just witnessed an Amazon dying for probably the first time in her entire life. She then rebounded and kicked ass. She didn't freeze for the rest of the movie, and she absolutely NEVER walked into any battle expecting her enemies to fight fair.

    She remembered everything.

    Marik said it better than I did that she acted more like a child and there's a difference between being naive about Man's world and just being dim.
    She acted like someone who'd lived a sheltered life and suddenly found herself in an alien environment in which she didn't understand all the rules. That's not being dim. That's called "culture shock."

    Yet again: "dim" people don't glance at chemical formulae and understand exactly what they're looking at.

    Gal's portrayal was far from perfect.
    That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I don't agree.
    Last edited by Vanguard-01; 12-07-2017 at 11:42 AM.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  5. #230
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    A reminder - this is a thread for WW*2*. If you wish to debate the merits of WW 1 there's another thread for that
    Gaelforce
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  6. #231
    Just crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    You've heard of this thing called "body types" right? Some people's bodies respond differently to training and exercise.
    Actually, people were saying because of the actress that played Faora as well as Henry Cavill, that Gal Gadot would be a beast by the time the movie premiered (talking about BvS). She got trained by the same person who trained the aforementioned actors.

    I kept saying that her body type would most likely not be the kind that allowed her to build muscle mass quickly. The fact that she gain muscle mass, as she puts it in interviews, made her look thin, but at least not catwalk model thin like she was before casting.

    If they didn't want to show what a typical amazon looks like by hiring crossfit or bodybuilder girls for the movie, than they should not have.

    The most prominent actresses to play amazons, Connie Nielson and Robin Wright looked like 'beasts' as compared to Gal. Sounds like their commitment to looking the part might have been more than Gals, at least with respect to muscle.

  7. #232
    Mighty Member Gemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Actually, people were saying because of the actress that played Faora as well as Henry Cavill, that Gal Gadot would be a beast by the time the movie premiered (talking about BvS). She got trained by the same person who trained the aforementioned actors.

    I kept saying that her body type would most likely not be the kind that allowed her to build muscle mass quickly. The fact that she gain muscle mass, as she puts it in interviews, made her look thin, but at least not catwalk model thin like she was before casting.

    If they didn't want to show what a typical amazon looks like by hiring crossfit or bodybuilder girls for the movie, than they should not have.

    The most prominent actresses to play amazons, Connie Nielson and Robin Wright looked like 'beasts' as compared to Gal. Sounds like their commitment to looking the part might have been more than Gals, at least with respect to muscle.
    Do we know if it was her who wanted to stay thinner or if TPTB wanted her to. This is snyder were talking about who cast her so I imagine he would have perferred her to stay thin.

  8. #233
    Just crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Do we know if it was her who wanted to stay thinner or if TPTB wanted her to. This is snyder were talking about who cast her so I imagine he would have perferred her to stay thin.
    I've read interviews where she stated that she didn't want to put on alot of muscle, so my guess it was Gal's intention to get toned versus putting any type of muscle on her body.

    In no way would I have imagined she would have gotten Jessica Biel fit like she did in Blade 3, but I was hoping.

  9. #234
    Mighty Member Gemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    I've read interviews where she stated that she didn't want to put on alot of muscle, so my guess it was Gal's intention to get toned versus putting any type of muscle on her body.

    In no way would I have imagined she would have gotten Jessica Biel fit like she did in Blade 3, but I was hoping.
    Thats a shame. I love her as an actress but I do perfer Diana to be ripped.

  10. #235
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    She probably preferred to stay toned since she still does modelling, I think. The area of modelling she's in would probably prefer her catwalk thin, or at the most, her current body.

    Back on topic: I wonder how Wonder Woman II will do with its new release date of November 2019. I know a couple of heavy hitters are releasing that year like Mulan, Captain Marvel, SW: Episode IX. Obviously they're coming out at different times throughout the year, but I'm curious to know how well this sequel will do in a more competitive landscape. It crushed PotC 5 and had amazing legs, which was due to great word of mouth and no other legitimate competition. (I feel like I'm answering my own question here lol)
    Last edited by Charmed; 12-07-2017 at 05:06 PM.

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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Do we know if it was her who wanted to stay thinner or if TPTB wanted her to. This is snyder were talking about who cast her so I imagine he would have perferred her to stay thin.
    I understood that it was Snyder who wanted her to remain slim. Snyder and the costume designer for DoJ wanted Diana to be able to wear all of those slinky, skin-tight evening gowns and look conventionally, cat-walk model, attractive in them.

    I STRONGLY disagree with that view - plenty of female actors "bulk up" and still remain extremely attractive, including Jennifer Garner (Alias), Jessica Biel (Blade: Trinity), Hilary Swank (Million Dollar Baby) and Linda Hamilton (Terminator 2). I also think it's a ridiculous double standard given the absurd lengths they make male actors go to for superhero roles.

    Maybe Gal Gadot expressed some reluctance about putting on a lot of weight / muscle, but ultimately if she was told to gain weight by WB / DC, then she would have been required to do so and they would have monitored her meals and training in the same way they monitor female actors who they want to lose weight and male actors who they want to gain weight / muscle.

    Unfortunately, it is what it is. It was probably expecting too much of Gal Gadot and/or WB/DC to try to overcome decades of societal pressure and expectations about the way women look on the big screen.

  12. #237
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Thats a shame. I love her as an actress but I do perfer Diana to be ripped.
    I’d be interested to see links to where these interviews exist, because as far as I know, they do not.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  13. #238
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Gal’s body was perfect for wonder woman. She very proudly gained 17 pounds of muscle for this role. She felt better, and felt more confident (her own words.) She looked wonderful. She looked perfect. She is Wonder Woman.

    I’d be really curious to see what some arm chair quarterback complainers actually look like. Never mind, I really wouldn’t. Haa.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  14. #239
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Again, in this movie I need her flying and she needs a power upgrade after that poor showing in Justice League for WW2. She is Superman's equal in the comics and should be shown as such on film!
    MAY ORORO AND T'CHALLA FOREVER BE!!!!!! HATERS BE GONE!

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  15. #240
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    So...since Flashpoint is a definite go, along with Aquaman, Shazam, WWII, SS2, JL Dark (hopefully not titled this way) and Green Lantern Corp, I wonder...

    Will Flashpoint affect Wonder Woman II....is it before or after, and will it have any affect on mid-1980's or so when WWII may be taking place... Barry Allen wouldn't have been born yet for WWI or WWII.

    Also, though they aren't necessarily connected, they still share a universe...so how will Shazam handle Zeus, and for that matter, Hercules?

    Hmmmmm
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

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