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  1. #46
    Mighty Member neohuey89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    They were probably a tad overly ambitious by even giving any Squadron solo books this soon. The Squadron needed to be established as a franchise so it could establish enough of a fan base to support multiple books. But the main book did exactly set the world on fire.

    It was worth a try I suppose because they are legitimately interesting characters. But in hindsight I'm not sure they had much of a chance.
    To me the issue was it wasn't ambitious at all. Squadron Supreme and Nighthawk were two books that were supposed to be super controversial, because they were introducing radicals into Marvel proper, but when I bought and read the books it was a lightweight version of what was promoted to me. It's not just these books either. I feel like Marvel sold a false narrative on a lot of the stories that came out after Secret Wars.

  2. #47

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    I didn't have any problem with the story that they were telling in Hyperion. I thought that it was a good horror tale. they even managed to get around Hyperion being overpowered; by making the threat something just as extraterrestrial. I'm not sure why people didn't take to it; yet continue to read Squirrel Girl.

    Nighthawk, on the other hand, was too small scale. you have to lean in to him being a batman "ripoff" not run from it. 'Hawk was getting involved in Darfur; back in his home universe. if they didn't intend to have him make big moves, they should have left him on the shelf (or confined his activity to the Squadron Supreme team book).
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 07-31-2017 at 04:02 PM.
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  3. #48
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I didn't have any problem with the story that they were telling in Hyperion. I thought that it was a good horror tale. they even managed to get around Hyperion being overpowered; by making the threat something just as extraterrestrial. I'm not sure why people didn't take to it; yet continue to read Squirrel Girl.

    Nighthawk, on the other hand, was too small scale. you have to lean in to him being a batman "ripoff" not run from it. 'Hawk was getting involved in Darfur; back in his home universe. if they didn't intend to have him make big moves, they should have left him on the shelf (or confined his activity to the Squadron Supreme team book).
    I agree with you, Nighthawk was just a version of Batman that ended up being much more violent. I thought the Walker series did a good job of keeping that vibe, and I also liked how the Squadron Supreme started with their book but after Weird World it took a nose dive.
    Please bring back any Wolverine.

  4. #49
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    yeah, possibly. but why have it be the last page reveal? it had nothing to do with the actual story.
    It was probably just a dumb Easter Egg. If it shows up again, it will probably be so Marvel can kill it off or somesuch.


    I didn't have any problem with the story that they were telling in Hyperion. I thought that it was a good horror tale. they even managed to get around Hyperion being overpowered; by making the threat something just as extraterrestrial. I'm not sure why people didn't take to it; yet continue to read Squirrel Girl.
    Different audiences. The audience for Squirrel Girl or Moon Girl or Ms. Marvel is not the standard audience. (Nothing wrong with this. If I had a daughter, I would be fine with her reading those characters. It is similar to a guy at the local comic shop who uses the Supergirl television series for daddy-daughter night.) They are not high-concept series.

    Squadron, in any iteration, has to be high-concept in today's market. The derpy-days of Roy Thomas are gone (thankfully).

    "Hyperion" works as a Superman analogue. But, what is to be done there? In 1985, there was room to kick around the idea of an unfinished or flawed Superman. There was a place for the Superman (or Justice League) story that DC would never tell.

    But, since then, DC has published "Red Son" or (more recently) "Master Men". The recent "Hyperion" series was not bad. But, a Superman analogue needs to be better than "not bad". Hell, it shared space with "Axiom", another Superman analogue (written by a-lister Mark Waid).
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  5. #50
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neohuey89 View Post
    To me the issue was it wasn't ambitious at all. Squadron Supreme and Nighthawk were two books that were supposed to be super controversial, because they were introducing radicals into Marvel proper, but when I bought and read the books it was a lightweight version of what was promoted to me. It's not just these books either. I feel like Marvel sold a false narrative on a lot of the stories that came out after Secret Wars.
    It too decades for the X-men to be capable of supporting multiple books. FF, as long as they have been around still can't. So I just don't think the assumption that the Squadron Supreme franchise could support 3 titles coming directly out of Secret Wars was overly optimistic. Franchise just aren't built overnight, but that's essentially what they tried to do.

  6. #51
    All-New Member thesecondkat's Avatar
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    His design was pretty sick.
    Can't have enough street levelers.

  7. #52
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesecondkat View Post
    His design was pretty sick.
    Minus the shoes.

  8. #53
    All-New Member thesecondkat's Avatar
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    I didn't hate them to be honest. But I also don't remember how the original supreme powers handled his footwear.
    Can't have enough street levelers.

  9. #54
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Just some boots that went with the costume.

    Please bring back any Wolverine.

  10. #55
    CBB 4 LIFE Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    David Walker betrayed the character.

    End of.
    Enjoying the camraderie of friends and family is all that matters in the world.

    Mr MajestiK took a short hiatus and the Chaos Bringer was reborn.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesecondkat View Post
    I didn't hate them to be honest. But I also don't remember how the original supreme powers handled his footwear.
    The Walker series put Nighthawk in sneakers. That series was hipster fodder.


    Franchise just aren't built overnight, but that's essentially what they tried to do.
    Absolutely.

    Marvel was coming off of a sold few years that happened to over-lap with DC being in a slump. With that in mind, it is hard to blame Marvel for trying. But, when the franchise (regardless of execution) essentially a knock-off of the nearest competition's a-list, success is far from guaranteed.

    And, (as I stated above), when the competition has decades worth of content, the knock-offs are going to have a hard time standing above the originals.
    Last edited by CentralPower; 08-04-2017 at 11:33 AM.
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  12. #57
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    The Walker series put Nighthawk in sneakers. That series was hipster fodder.




    Absolutely.

    Marvel was coming off of a sold few years that happened to over-lap with DC being in a slump. With that in mind, it is hard to blame Marvel for trying. But, when the franchise (regardless of execution) essentially a knock-off of the nearest competition's a-list, success is far from guaranteed.

    And, (as I stated above), when the competition has decades worth of content, the knock-offs are going to have a hard time standing above the originals.
    I don't think Marvel would ever expect Nighthawk to stand above Batman, but they could have put a better artist on the book and pushed it a bit more and maybe we could have gotten 12 issues instead of the 5 or 6 that we ended up with.
    Please bring back any Wolverine.

  13. #58
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    I loved the character during JMS' Supreme Power and Squadron Supreme, Way's mini, and Nighthawk vs. Hyperion. He seems to be a really dark and nasty version of Batman that did not play well with others. Plus, it was nice to see an openly racist superhero. That seems like a weird thing to say but I guess I liked all of the characters deep flaws in Supreme Power. They're kind of all awful people (most of them, at least) that end up fighting for good every once in a while.

    The newest series by David Walker was just awful. In Supreme Power, Nighthawk was derided for being a racist by all of his fellow superheroes, but in Walker's series he was seen as practically more of a hero because he was racist. It was some really gross propagandist stuff that painted every white person as a villain and every black person as a victim. Not to mention, he didn't have much going for him in Robinson's Squadron Supreme series either. I hate the idea of Nighthawk being a willing team-member. He works best on his own, on the fringes of the superhero community. They had a real chance to bring the 'Squadron' characters back into the limelight, but of course, the opportunity got squandered by Marvel, like usual, due to leftist politics, flooding the shelves, and bland storytelling.

    I did enjoy the Nighthawk from Squadron Sinister though!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I didn't have any problem with the story that they were telling in Hyperion. I thought that it was a good horror tale. they even managed to get around Hyperion being overpowered; by making the threat something just as extraterrestrial. I'm not sure why people didn't take to it; yet continue to read Squirrel Girl.
    "A good horror tale?" The problem with the storytelling is that you could have put any superhero in the place of Hyperion and nothing would have changed. The typical Tumblrina MAIN character was bland as hell, which didn't help at all. Hyperion should have been a Superman story, but with moral quandaries. He should have been a character that was struggling to figured out how to help the world, or if he even should. Becoming a trucker and driving around the country isn't a bad place to start tbh. However, it was an absolutely stupid idea to make him a) the side character in his own book, and b) fight a random group of inbreds with magic powers.
    I know it's a Nighthawk thread, but I just got done reading all of the ANAD Squadron stuff, and had to get this off my chest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I also liked how the Squadron Supreme started with their book but after Weird World it took a nose dive.
    I 100% agree. The really sad thing is that the Weird World stuff began in the fourth issue.

    After reading the 2000's stuff, I was very skeptical, but the #1 assuaged my feelings by having the team pull of a legitimately horrific action by killing Namor, Atlantis, and a whole lot of Atlanteans. The Squadron should have been the team that was promised to us: "By Any Means Necessary." The Weird World story came out of nowhere and literally did nothing for the characters, and after that they essentially became just another team of Avengers. I actually liked that Blur was questioning his morality, and I also really enjoyed the Warrior Woman/Power Princess twist, but the rest of the characters should have been resolute with their morality. At the very least, they should have fallen on the 'darker' side of the morality scale, but instead we got most of them feeling bad for their actions and wanting to change into real heroes. Count me out.
    Last edited by TheFerg714; 08-05-2017 at 02:25 AM.

  14. #59
    Fantastic Member Geek Mangacomic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    I loved the character during JMS' Supreme Power and Squadron Supreme, Way's mini, and Nighthawk vs. Hyperion. He seems to be a really dark and nasty version of Batman that did not play well with others. Plus, it was nice to see an openly racist superhero. That seems like a weird thing to say but I guess I liked all of the characters deep flaws in Supreme Power. They're kind of all awful people (most of them, at least) that end up fighting for good every once in a while.

    The newest series by David Walker was just awful. In Supreme Power, Nighthawk was derided for being a racist by all of his fellow superheroes, but in Walker's series he was seen as practically more of a hero because he was racist. It was some really gross propagandist stuff that painted every white person as a villain and every black person as a victim. Not to mention, he didn't have much going for him in Robinson's Squadron Supreme series either. I hate the idea of Nighthawk being a willing team-member. He works best on his own, on the fringes of the superhero community. They had a real chance to bring the 'Squadron' characters back into the limelight, but of course, the opportunity got squandered by Marvel, like usual, due to leftist politics, flooding the shelves, and bland storytelling.

    I did enjoy the Nighthawk from Squadron Sinister though!


    "A good horror tale?" The problem with the storytelling is that you could have put any superhero in the place of Hyperion and nothing would have changed. The typical Tumblrina MAIN character was bland as hell, which didn't help at all. Hyperion should have been a Superman story, but with moral quandaries. He should have been a character that was struggling to figured out how to help the world, or if he even should. Becoming a trucker and driving around the country isn't a bad place to start tbh. However, it was an absolutely stupid idea to make him a) the side character in his own book, and b) fight a random group of inbreds with magic powers.
    I know it's a Nighthawk thread, but I just got done reading all of the ANAD Squadron stuff, and had to get this off my chest.


    I 100% agree. The really sad thing is that the Weird World stuff began in the fourth issue.

    After reading the 2000's stuff, I was very skeptical, but the #1 assuaged my feelings by having the team pull of a legitimately horrific action by killing Namor, Atlantis, and a whole lot of Atlanteans. The Squadron should have been the team that was promised to us: "By Any Means Necessary." The Weird World story came out of nowhere and literally did nothing for the characters, and after that they essentially became just another team of Avengers. I actually liked that Blur was questioning his morality, and I also really enjoyed the Warrior Woman/Power Princess twist, but the rest of the characters should have been resolute with their morality. At the very least, they should have fallen on the 'darker' side of the morality scale, but instead we got most of them feeling bad for their actions and wanting to change into real heroes. Count me out.
    I wouldn't say that Walker's Nighthawk thought in such black and white terms about race. Though he was way more bland than he was.
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  15. #60
    Fantastic Member Geek Mangacomic's Avatar
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    So, anybody think that the Raymond Kane/Supreme Power Nighthawk will come back from the dead?
    Series I'm Picking Up/Going To Be Picking Up
    X-Men Gold
    Astonishing X-Men
    Weapon X
    Old Man Logan
    Deadpool vs Old Man Logan
    Phoenix: Ressurection
    Headcanons
    Marvel: Earth 298 (2099) is a possible future of Earth 807128 (Old Man Logan's future)

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