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  1. #61
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    I think at the time of the end of series, I had hoped to see him in the costume. Then when I saw the what looked to be Superman Returns-ish costume, I was glad we didn't get to see him wearing it.

    I agree with others that said Tom was overly concerned about the suit affecting his career, a concern which turned out to be a nothingburger. He could have worn it and won a mark out moment for many.

    I give credit to Smallville, in retrospect, overall, for forever changing my mind on what Lex should be as a villain. The creators did the best Lex ever and it's really impressive.
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  2. #62
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Visually I think just hinting at it was just fine. Like you said too, since it was based on the awful Returns costume, probably even better they didn't go full-tilt. But visually it worked for me as it was. Again I still don't really get Welling's particular arguments against doing it, but I think the final result was quite respectful to the lore and well-played. It gave me the feels when he took off from the Fortress with the costume, and saved Lois and the plane only really seeing the billowing cape in the background. And I wasn't even the hugest fan of the series in the first place.
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  3. #63
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    I have to say that I'm finding a lot of the comments about Tom Welling on this thread to be concerning at best and truly cruel at worst. I was a longtime fan of Smallville and I watched it closely over the years. I had been a Superman fan for a long time as a child. I religiously watched "Lois and Clark" and the Chris Reeve films. I read comics. But I had taken a "break" from Superman when I was in high school and into college and Smallvlile revitalized my passion for the franchise again. In a way, I feel a deep debt towards the show because I had started to stray away from Superman (even though I was so devoted as a kid to the characters) and Smallville reminded me, "Hey..you need to come back to this. You really love Superman." I was lucky enough to meet a lot of other women throughout my time following the show who had a similar experience and, for that reason, I think the show is important in the Superman canon and should be given more credit than it often is. It was a rare show that seemed to really court a diverse audience, it was a welcoming show for men and women alike and it was a way to make this sometimes intimidating canon accessible to a lot of people.

    I like Tom Welling and I'll always have a soft spot for him. Putting aside how obviously gorgeous he is (because God is he gorgeous).....I have always appreciated and respected that he was an introverted and private man. He didn't give interviews often but when he did speak, he tended to always actually have something to say rather than just talking to hear himself talk. His female co-stars always loved him and I don't think it was just because he was so handsome. One of the female directors on Smallville, Mairzee Almas, once said in a podcast that she liked Tom specifically because he liked working with women and just genuinely LIKED women and liked listening to them and talking to them and making them feel comfortable. She went on to share that it was one of his best traits because he was the kind of man, in a male dominant industry, that made the workplace a nice place for women to be and the women he worked with LIKED his company. That goes a long way with me and it always made me feel proud of him and proud of the show. I think it particularly means a lot because this genre can still struggle with inclusivity and so often this kinds of welcoming attitudes stem from your lead actor on a series. They set the tone and Tom set a tone that was positive for the women on set.

    I also have a soft spot for Welling's Clark Kent. Was Smallville perfect? No. They did some things over the years (especially in seasons 5-7 ) that I didn't care for. But they also took the time to explore emotions and relationships dynamics in complex ways that so often films and comics do NOT. The show really showed a Clark Kent who was struggling with depression after losing his father to a heart attack---something I know many people who had experienced the death of a parent related to deeply. The show also really took the time to show a man who was not just struggling to figure out his place in the world but literally his own identity. This show really took the time to explore what it meant for Clark Kent to be two sides of the same person----it actually explored what the dual identity of Superman MEANS. To this day, I think this show did the best job in any live action show of exploring the idea that both Clark Kent and Kal-El of Krypton are equally real expressions of self for this man and where those two sides meet in the middle is how we get ....Superman. I also felt the show did a truly wonderful job developing Lois as her own woman with agency. She was a foil for Clark and yet she had her OWN story. Her own struggles. She had her own journey to becoming the woman she was meant to be right alongside Clark Kent and so did Lex. When Lois and Clark finally started to realize that they had feelings for each other, it was such an incredible pay off because you had literally WATCHED for all these years as they had challenged each other and pushed each other and yet turned to each other in times of grief and pain and found comfort and humor. Their love story was deeply satisfying for me because I saw two people committed to each other in a partnership in a way you rarely see on television or any fictional narrative.

    I still enjoy the current DC offerings. In particular, I like The Flash. However, I often find that the current CW landscape of superhero shows feel emotionally hollow compared to how truly sincere Smallville was nearly all the time. It's strange but sometimes the current CW shows feel to me as if everyone has the same personality, makes the same quips, has the same way of speaking. Whereas, on Smallville, even when the writing struggled, each character felt distinct to me. Clark was Clark. Lois was Lois. Lex was Lex. They didn't speak like each other---they were distinct people. Sometimes, I feel like the current shows do better with plot than Smallville used to? But they don't do as well with actual character growth. Many times, I feel like I can't actually designate how characters on the current CW shows have grown and changed whereas I always felt as though I could see Clark, Lex, Lois etc changing and growing season by season.

    All this is to say, while I would have loved to have seen Tom Welling wear the Superman suit....I was deeply emotionally impacted by the conclusion of Smallville. Deeply. I cried during the finale several times. The show still means a great deal to me and a lot of women I know. The show brought me very emotionally close to Superman in a way I hadn't been since childhood and it brought me back into the fold of reading and buying comics on a regular basis again. I respect Tom's thoughtfulness and always wish him well in everything and anything he does. He was Clark Kent to me and i'll always be grateful.

  4. #64
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I agree that calling the guy out on a personal level is more than a little out there. It reminds me of the time when Megan Fox stated she didn't like Wonder Woman when she was rumored as a candidate to play her and people flipped out. They're not horrible people for flat-out not liking or not caring as much about a fictional character as we might.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 08-11-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I think at the time of the end of series, I had hoped to see him in the costume. Then when I saw the what looked to be Superman Returns-ish costume, I was glad we didn't get to see him wearing it.

    I agree with others that said Tom was overly concerned about the suit affecting his career, a concern which turned out to be a nothingburger. He could have worn it and won a mark out moment for many.

    I give credit to Smallville, in retrospect, overall, for forever changing my mind on what Lex should be as a villain. The creators did the best Lex ever and it's really impressive.

    I don't think we even know for sure though that he WAS worried about it affecting his career.

    We also have to keep in mind that even when the show ended...it was a totally different landscape. The truth is that Smallville debuted before the superhero boom had really become a thing again. We often forget that when the concept of "no tights, no flights" debuted it was considered a fresh concept distinctly because the idea that you would strip down Superman to his humanity and not be so focused on "the suit" was a big deal at the time and it was in a landscape where the failure of films like Batman and Robin only a few years prior (not to mention "Lois and Clark" only recently being on the air and still fresh on people's minds) made the concept of the suit not desirable from a TV standpoint for a long time.

    I tend to think that if Smallville had run longer and ended in the last year or so....this might have BEEN a different conversation. But they ended their run right on the cusp of the superhero boom really, really taking off. And I think we have to take that into account.

  6. #66
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    It's all fair game to criticize the show, but to,as some have, to cast aspersions on Welling for being some sort of egocentric asshole Because he wouldn't cater to the fans their wish of seeing him in tights takes things too far. Not you or a few others, but those here making snarky comments about Welling's looks or perceived lack of career since SMALLVILLE is uncalled for.After all, when he signed on to do the show, he signed on to play a Clark Kent finding his way to Superman. That's what he did. Narratively, the show ends with Clark Kent becoming Superman. He fullfilled his end of the bargain and did his job. His job was not to wear a Superman costume to fullfil the desires of fanboys and girls who got their hopes up that the show would go beyond it's previously stated promise of showing the journey from boy to man and making the decision to become Superman.

    In fact, by even giving us Superman , doing Superman things like rescuing Air Force one and pushing An entire planet out of orbit does go above and beyond the show's mission statement. Now, of course fans are entitled to be disappointed to a point, but those fans were never promised an hour or two of Tom Welling in full costume calling himself Superman. The audience was promised seeing the character of Clark ending the series as Superman, which we got and more. We just didn't get a money shot of Tom in a full Superman suit from which memes could be born from.

    Also, as an aside, Welling is going to be on an upcoming episode of Michael Rosenbaum's "Inside of you" podcast sometime in the near future. Welling and Rosenbaum have both mentioned it on Instagram. It's very likely that the two will discuss Smallville and it's also possible Welling will open up even more about this very subject. Should be interesting.The episode has already been recorded as I understand.
    Oh, completely agreed on the personal attack front. There's no call for it. Attacking the move or decision, and perhaps perceived/potential mindset at the time, is where it should stop. People can call his decision anything you like, but that's not the same as attacking him directly as a human being or actor in general.

    I do have to give some pushback on some of the dismissal of the wanted ending, though. Part of the journey is a satisfying conclusion. Most stories (particularly long ones) tend to have a satisfying closer that pays the viewer off for investing in the journey. To see the conclusion in all it's glory... and I think saying that what we got is better than what we should have gotten doesn't really fly with me (pun intended, lol). If the reaction we see from some seems extreme now, imagine if it'd ended as some have nearly suggested was "true to show", where he pulls out a box with the suit and says "Yep, I'm gonna be Superman!" fade to black and end... the fan-rage on here would still be whitehot - or at least the general dismissal. As it was, many fans I knew at the time were pissed off. It felt like a cheap cop-out, ironically an expensive one due to the CG..lol. Now, part of that has to do with what other Smallville actors have said on the matter at the time and since, so that certainly does influence my position here. If you're happy with it, that's great, but I think it's more than fair for some who feel it hurt their overall show experience. That can be true even of otherwise amazing things - I loved Red Dead Redemption (for instance), but the ending (or lack of a satisfying alternate depending on playstyle) definitely lessens my overall feelings on it, even though it's just the ending I have a problem with.

    That all said, I'll certainly check out the podcast, as potentially hearing more about this and the show in general from the two - so many years later - should be an interesting listen.
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  7. #67
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    We also have to keep in mind that even when the show ended...it was a totally different landscape. The truth is that Smallville debuted before the superhero boom had really become a thing again. We often forget that when the concept of "no tights, no flights" debuted it was considered a fresh concept distinctly because the idea that you would strip down Superman to his humanity and not be so focused on "the suit" was a big deal at the time and it was in a landscape where the failure of films like Batman and Robin only a few years prior (not to mention "Lois and Clark" only recently being on the air and still fresh on people's minds) made the concept of the suit not desirable from a TV standpoint for a long time.

    I tend to think that if Smallville had run longer and ended in the last year or so....this might have BEEN a different conversation. But they ended their run right on the cusp of the superhero boom really, really taking off. And I think we have to take that into account.
    Absolutely. Smallville really is why we even have the "Arrowverse", etc. When the show debuted, there was definitely a certain... distaste... for Superheroes in general. It was very much a kind of "dirty realism" time in entertainment, where anything too "clean" just wasn't in the public's attention palate then. So a Superman show taking off was really a long shot. And to have lasted as long as it did was a testament to both the actors and the writing/production team.

    Just look at when Arrow was first talked about - I remember a number of people wondering why Justin Hartley wasn't chosen and why it wasn't a spinoff series, because people still wanted a chance to maybe see Tom as Clark again.

    And for all my problems with the finale it's important to say this: he was an amazing embodiment of Clark at the time. He felt like a slightly updated Christopher Reeve with dashes of the Post-Crisis Superman... and Erica Durance is still my all-time favorite Lois Lane ever. She nailed every bit of that character.
    Last edited by JAK; 08-11-2017 at 01:33 PM.
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  8. #68
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Oh, completely agreed on the personal attack front. There's no call for it. Attacking the move or decision, and perhaps perceived/potential mindset at the time, is where it should stop. People can call his decision anything you like, but that's not the same as attacking him directly as a human being or actor in general.

    I do have to give some pushback on some of the dismissal of the wanted ending, though. Part of the journey is a satisfying conclusion. Most stories (particularly long ones) tend to have a satisfying closer that pays the viewer off for investing in the journey. To see the conclusion in all it's glory... and I think saying that what we got is better than what we should have gotten doesn't really fly with me (pun intended, lol). If the reaction we see from some seems extreme now, imagine if it'd ended as some have nearly suggested was "true to show", where he pulls out a box with the suit and says "Yep, I'm gonna be Superman!" fade to black and end... the fan-rage on here would still be whitehot - or at least the general dismissal. As it was, many fans I knew at the time were pissed off. It felt like a cheap cop-out, ironically an expensive one due to the CG..lol. Now, part of that has to do with what other Smallville actors have said on the matter at the time and since, so that certainly does influence my position here. If you're happy with it, that's great, but I think it's more than fair for some who feel it hurt their overall show experience. That can be true even of otherwise amazing things - I loved Red Dead Redemption (for instance), but the ending (or lack of a satisfying alternate depending on playstyle) definitely lessens my overall feelings on it, even though it's just the ending I have a problem with.

    That all said, I'll certainly check out the podcast, as potentially hearing more about this and the show in general from the two - so many years later - should be an interesting listen.
    Believe me, if Welling had indeed worn a Superman costume on that last episode, I probably would have been cheering, but it is what it is. I'm fairly a pragmatic person when it comes to these things. To hand wring and opine over this 6 years after the fact and use it as a chance to bash the show or bash Welling as an actor or person is just pointless and petty to me, IMO. I don't like Lex's final fate with the mind wipe, but it's water under the bridge. Doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the series as a whole and neither does not getting a Tom Welling moneyshot in tights and a cape posing dramatically. Of course if it does hurt ones enjoyment, well, one doesn't have to watch it. Not you, of course. Just speaking in general terms.

    In some alternate Dimension or on Earth Prime 2, our Earth primian 2 counterparts are complaining how Tom Welling's insistence on wearing the Superman's costume for the entire last hour of the series finale ruined the show and betrayed the series and we have a few making digs at his acting skills or his ego Because he dare thought he could be as good of a Superman as Chris Reeve or Henry Cavill's and are speculating how a more subtle use of close up shots and CGI trickery and hints would have been enough and more fitting. Us fans are apt to be contrarian like that sadly.

    My ultimate point is it did fullfil the original promise of the pilot and what the series was supposed to be.
    It would have been nice of Welling to throw the fans even more of a bone and stepped into the suit for real, but from some there's this sense of " he owed me to wear the suit! How dare he not do what we wanted him to do!" Just rubs me the wrong way.If the reason was he just didn't want to wear the suit...Well, it's within his rights to do so. It is what it is.

    But I do get what you are saying though. I'm personally long over it and I kinda prefer to look at the positives of the series as a whole instead of focusing on one negative thing that may not have even worked all that well . I mean, what if Welling looked bad in Routh's suit ( which was possible as Routh didn't look great in that suit anyway)? What if they made a shoddy quickie suit for one or two shots that looked like crap? It's all What if at this point. I firmly think things happen like they are supposed to and things happen for a reason. To dwell on these things, is counterproductive, but I realize I'm in the minority in fandom to have that mindset. More so as I approach middle age.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 08-11-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I really didn't intend for this to turn into a pie fight. I just thought some people would find it interesting given the controversy at the time. My only real disappointment with the finale was that they used the Returns suit. I'd have loved to see a more traditional one. I'm sure some fan that specializes in cosplay could have made them something. If all he was going to do was open his shirt, why not just make the shirt and have that be the end of it? Truth be told, it might look a little awkward with him in the suit after ten years of him literally running around in a jacket. My personal preference when the show was on the air would for them to make a transitional movie where he becomes Superman and the series moves forward from there. This would have made more sense sometime around 2005-06. Clark goes off to college and becomes Superman while interning at the Planet.
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  10. #70
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Love reading and agreeing with your thoughts, manofsteel1979 and Nelliebly!

  11. #71
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Believe me, if Welling had indeed worn a Superman costume on that last episode, I probably would have been cheering, but it is what it is. I'm fairly a pragmatic person when it comes to these things. To hand wring and opine over this 6 years after the fact and use it as a chance to bash the show or bash Welling as an actor or person is just pointless and petty to me, IMO. I don't like Lex's final fate with the mind wipe, but it's water under the bridge. Doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the series as a whole and neither does not getting a Tom Welling moneyshot in tights and a cape posing dramatically. Of course if it does hurt ones enjoyment, well, one doesn't have to watch it. Not you, of course. Just speaking in general terms.

    In some alternate Dimension or on Earth Prime 2, our Earth primian 2 counterparts are complaining how Tom Welling's insistence on wearing the Superman's costume for the entire last hour of the series finale ruined the show and betrayed the series and we have a few making digs at his acting skills or his ego Because he dare thought he could be as good of a Superman as Chris Reeve or Henry Cavill's and are speculating how a more subtle use of close up shots and CGI trickery and hints would have been enough and more fitting. Us fans are apt to be contrarian like that sadly.

    My ultimate point is it did fullfil the original promise of the pilot and what the series was supposed to be.
    It would have been nice of Welling to throw the fans even more of a bone and stepped into the suit for real, but from some there's this sense of " he owed me to wear the suit! How dare he not do what we wanted him to do!" Just rubs me the wrong way.If the reason was he just didn't want to wear the suit...Well, it's within his rights to do so. It is what it is.

    But I do get what you are saying though. I'm personally long over it and I kinda prefer to look at the positives of the series as a whole instead of focusing on one negative thing that may not have even worked all that well . I mean, what if Welling looked bad in Routh's suit ( which was possible as Routh didn't look great in that suit anyway)? What if they made a shoddy quickie suit for one or two shots that looked like crap? It's all What if at this point. I firmly think things happen like they are supposed to and things happen for a reason. To dwell on these things, is counterproductive, but I realize I'm in the minority in fandom to have that mindset. More so as I approach middle age.
    Overall, I'm honestly pretty over it, too. I really don't think much about it in general, and didn't until the post came up. And it's more like: "oh yeah! That was annoying. wtf... *turns head* ..oh, hey! The new Action Comics is out!"

    Fans are apt to be contrarian, but I think it's as much about tastes in general - it was okay for some but not others. And it's right in the middle-ground enough to get crap from both sides, depending on how you look at it. And speaking of... the contrarian fan in me wants to point out that what you describe sounds more like Earth 3 than Earth 2. lol

    Your point about the suit is VERY well taken, though... as much as I'd love to see him in a Superman suit, seeing him in Brandon's might have been a bit odd, at that (fit, etc) given the materials it was made from. Though, from what we saw, it seems to be an alternate suit (test suit, maybe?) with a larger emblem. Or at least it was at times. I get the impression that they had to keep borrowing it and got a different one each time, lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I really didn't intend for this to turn into a pie fight. I just thought some people would find it interesting given the controversy at the time. My only real disappointment with the finale was that they used the Returns suit. I'd have loved to see a more traditional one. I'm sure some fan that specializes in cosplay could have made them something. If all he was going to do was open his shirt, why not just make the shirt and have that be the end of it? Truth be told, it might look a little awkward with him in the suit after ten years of him literally running around in a jacket. My personal preference when the show was on the air would for them to make a transitional movie where he becomes Superman and the series moves forward from there. This would have made more sense sometime around 2005-06. Clark goes off to college and becomes Superman while interning at the Planet.
    Actually, it's funny you mention this for two reasons: first, that the series started out with a much more traditional suit (remember the reflection as he opened the box? That was a classic emblem!), and second... I'm pretty sure that IS just a t-shirt under there. Looks like I can see flesh tone under the arms instead of blue (not to mention no cape). I could be wrong, but the way it looked/looks to me also gave an impression that kinda spolied it for me.
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