View Poll Results: Detective Comics or Batman, Which Book Do You Like More?

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  • Batman

    39 53.42%
  • Detective Comics

    34 46.58%
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  1. #46
    Fantastic Member Mister BoMan's Avatar
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    Batman is the one I like the best.
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  2. #47
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    What you just said is true. However, two things you forget: 1) The fandom hasn't suddenly forgotten everything. She may not be mainstream in terms of appearing outside of comics, but as far as comics themselves go, she's still incredibly popular and on the same level as the Robins and other Batgirls. You may not like her, but her fanbase is still large and passionate as ever. We remember everything. 2) Tynion clearly has more planned for her. That much was at least shown with the ending of League of Shadows, not to mention that she's going to get focus whenever Basil's arc roles around. While yes, it's unlikely that her history as Batgirl will be restored with the current editorial, I don't think it's out of the question that the adoption will take place down the line. (I'll actually be asking Tynion about that when I see him next week)



    Well, we might find out in a couple months, since Cass and Steph are going to be appearing in BoP.
    Like with Wally West, who I love. It's impossible for a character to be taken completely out of publication for a lengthy period, while having no appearances out side of comics, to grow or even maintain their fan base. Orphan is not on the same level as the Robins or Batgirl. How could she be. I'm sorry, and I'm not hating on her, but that's just not how things work.

  3. #48
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    And that's part of the reason why the fanbases can get rabid at denigration of a character's standing; they want to see that changed. It doesn't matter how much more immediately marketable Babs as Batgirl is because of the 60's TV show, Cass and Steph (and Oracle, to an extent) fans are going to see their favorites not just as "their" Batgirls, but as the best Batgirls. I mean, it doesn't matter how many Tumblr fans post Babsgirl fanart, or how quickly she immediately gets cast in love action and cartoons, I'm always going to think that Oracle was a superior evolution of the character, and that both Cass and Steph fit a modern Batman family better in the cowl than this version of the character.

    And I'm not alone, which means that, almost certainly, a hardcore fan like myself or others will eventually become a creator and attempt to have my generations characters usurp the "classics." It's kind of what happened to a bunch of Silver Age characters and their fans. And that also means that some of the readership, especially online where niche communities can grow and accumulate, is going to hail TEC as being the book to get the highest quality Batgirl stories, even if the characters are short changed in page time, simply because they feel that way.

    And to an extent, that's the mad genius of TEC's setup. Launching a team book with so many proven sellers and cult favorites kind of meant this would print money even without good writing; I'd argue that in the shrunken comic's market, TEc has a greater appeal than the much more marketable to the mainstream Teen Titans because the makeup of the cast has a higher pedigree in a legendary book.
    Last edited by godisawesome; 08-12-2017 at 08:59 PM.
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  4. #49
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    And that's part of the reason why the fanbases can get rabid at denigration of a character's standing; they want to see that changed. It doesn't matter how much more immediately marketable Babs as Batgirl is because of the 60's TV show, Cass and Steph (and Oracle, to an extent) fans are going to see their favorites not just as "their" Batgirls, but as the best Batgirls. I mean, it doesn't matter how many Tumblr fans post Babsgirl fanart, or how quickly she immediately gets cast in love action and cartoons, I'm always going to think that Oracle was a superior evolution of the character, and that both Cass and Steph fit a modern Batman family better in the cowl than this version of the character.
    And I think Babs can be just as compelling in her own right as Batgirl, which I think she's proved on multiple occassions, even as I also say this as someone who's a fan of the other Batgirls. And of Barbara as Oracle.

    But that's probably going to always be a sticking point among the Batgirl fandom.

    And I'm not alone, which means that, almost certainly, a hardcore fan like myself or others will eventually become a creator and attempt to have my generations characters usurp the "classics." It's kind of what happened to a bunch of Silver Age characters and their fans. And that also means that some of the readership, especially online where niche communities can grow and accumulate, is going to hail TEC as being the book to get the highest quality Batgirl stories, even if the characters are short changed in page time, simply because they feel that way.
    Well, probably everyone has the idea of what they want to do if they were writing a DC book and would want to push their favorites, but I'd like to think we'd all try and do it in a way that didn't come at the expense of another fandom.

    Of course, being a comic book writer probably requires a lot of thinking that you're "doing what's best" even if fans may disagree.

    I don't think 'Tec is giving out the highest quality Batigirl stories because it's delivering good or solid (or okay) stories about Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown, who aren't Batgirl in that book.

    But I'm comfortable separating them from that identity even if I'd like their tenure with it to be acknowledged more.

  5. #50
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Im not flamebating. You stick the fringe guys next to the mainstream guys, and the fringe guys will either draw the short stick or the mainstream guys fans will turn on them like we saw with B&R:E.
    Uhhh. I don't see how mainstream fans turned on anyone except Harper for Batman and Robin Eternal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it'd be fine if we saw the mainstream guys mentoring and working together with the...I don't want to say "fringe," but working together with the rest of the Batfamily in a positive way.

    I'm not sure if Tynion would handle that well but I think it would be nice to see.
    I would love more Batfamily interaction. Though every time it actually happens, there's always some people who feel like their favorite is getting ignored. I know I feel that way about the upcoming Batman arc with only the Robins. And I'll definitely feel that way if Steph doesn't get a chance to show up in Birds of Prey (Red Hood I'm a bit sad, but that title doesn't really speak to me, so I'm less emotionally invested). I don't really have a handle on how Tynion writes Babs. I think his Dick is fine, based on Batman and Robin Eternal (fine, not stellar).

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    And i get that, i do, but even with Tim, Steph, and Cass. How well do you think the current Batgirl mentoring Steph and Cass would go over with their fanbase.
    Haha. Well, I know Assam will never read it, but I actually really enjoyed (and bought on release day) the issues from the Burnside run which featured Steph - the 3rd Annual (5 dollars for 5 pages of Steph, and well worth it ), and issues #46-52, especially 46, 47, and 51. Seeing Steph getting training from Babs was really fun, even when I hated (and I mean really hated) that incarnation of Babs - largely because Babs tends to function best as a mentor or teacher. I was actually expecting Babs and Dinah to mentor Steph, Cass, and Harper in the Batgirl and the Birds of Prey title before it was revealed it would be the classic trio. And I was really excited about it! (Not that I don't enjoy the current run with the current grouping.) And most of the stuff I read on tumblr was pretty positive about it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, I mean, I'm not even crazy about the current Batgirl but I'd still like to see her mentoring Steph and Cass again even as Batgirl.

    But there probably is a good chance that, however it's handled, it would just instigate the wars over the Batgirls again.

    Sometimes I understand why the Batfamily doesn't appear in the main Batman book that much .
    The Batgirls and Robins wars will never go away. And I am always here to stand up for Steph! But it is pretty exhausting.
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  6. #51
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Batman, and it's not even close. Better writing and actually focuses on the big man himself.

  7. #52
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    It's tied. So are both good or just different fans per book?

    I prefer Batman. King has more hit than miss for me. I also believe 'Tec should focus on the detective aspect of Batman, not the Bat family. We need to bring the detective back to the Greatest Detective. The '90s nostalgia fun trip is not my cup of tea.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    It's tied. So are both good or just different fans per book?
    Yes.

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  9. #54
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Although sales indicate that Batman is about twice a popular. I wonder why the voting is so close.
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  10. #55
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Although sales indicate that Batman is about twice a popular. I wonder why the voting is so close.
    You'll notice that NO DC ongoing book comes close to Batman. Far behind in sales as it is, 'Tec is still DC's 3rd highest selling ongoing (2nd once All-Star ends). There are tons of people who probably only read Batman and only because it's Batman. AKA, not the kind of fans who'd be spending time on a forum. (Plus, this forum is still just a rather small sample size)
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Although sales indicate that Batman is about twice a popular. I wonder why the voting is so close.
    Possibly a combination of an online community like ours being invested in side characters a little more than the average comic reader, thus giving a big boost to TEC because of the ensemble, and if we're talking about solid issue sales figures, than the Batman sales *might* be more inflated as a book a store would be more likely to over-order.
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  12. #57
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    It's tied. So are both good or just different fans per book?
    Well, quality is subjective, but you're obviously going to get a lot of Batman fans voting for his solo and a lot of Batfamily fans voting for 'Tec.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    I also believe 'Tec should focus on the detective aspect of Batman, not the Bat family. We need to bring the detective back to the Greatest Detective. The '90s nostalgia fun trip is not my cup of tea.
    Indeed. Bruce doesn't need to star in as many books as he does, but Detective should always be his along with Batman. They can resurrect the "Batman Family" title from the 70s and slap it on the team book and let it be its own thing. Bruce doesn't even need to be in it.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    And while Luke and JPV may be more side-characters now than the others, there's nothing "fringe" about Cass and Kate.
    Kate was definitely fringe before rebirth.

  15. #60
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    JPV was and is still more mainstream than Cass ever was.

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