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  1. #181
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nnelg View Post
    Actually considering their lack of a history outside her always only being portrayed as his clone, she doesn't have the right. He stays away from Amiko because Sabretooth or one of his many enemies would and does attack him all of the time. That is him realizing that being around her puts her in danger. How exactly is that being a bad father? It looks like he puts her well being before his feelings. Like a father should.
    1/ Sabretooth did find Logan's daughter in this Generations.

    2/ Was Logan staying away going to make it better? If Sabretooth found her, anyone can. So was Laura's advice to Logan obvious, and Logan couldn't see it?

    I know this is a Time travel story, but this shouldn't be taken as slotting into 616 history as essential to the character, should it?
    Last edited by jackolover; 08-17-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  2. #182
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I think the point is that even if Logan wasn't around them, they still ended up getting screwed for their connection to him, so it's better to be around Akiko than leave her because of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    It wasn't, and that's the point: Logan's only relationship with Daken was hostile, and he wasn't in the lives of the others at all (in fact he didn't even know about them). It didn't stop the villains from using them to fuck with Logan for a second.

    So it simply DOESN'T MATTER if Logan isn't in the lives of his kids. It's not going to stop a villain like Creed from using them against him.
    I know I'm a few pages late to this part of the discussion but I think it is worth pointing out that the Daken and the Red Right Hand crew were kids that Logan was unaware that he had. This is not the case for Akiko. I'd also like to say that most of Logan's enemies actively seek him out. If he is alone or with a team like the X-Men he doesn't have as much to worry about as opposed to if he also has to protect a child.

    I'm not trying to argue that Logan should stay away from his kids because I think it has been established many times over he is one of the better father figures out there and on a personal note I always think that a father should be around, but I can follow his logic of staying away to try and protect them.
    You brought back Wolverine

  3. #183
    Incredible Member jpmst17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Then dont buy it. No one is forcing you. You've already read what 3? There's quite a few left that you can choose to ignore
    i don't buy them. but i've read them. i wanted to buy the ones of the characters i like, but just can't justify spending that kind of money on something that, to me, isn't worth it. the stories just aren't great

  4. #184
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I know I'm a few pages late to this part of the discussion but I think it is worth pointing out that the Daken and the Red Right Hand crew were kids that Logan was unaware that he had.
    That was the point exactly: Logan didn't know about them (or in Daken's case, by the time he learned about him the potential for a happy relationship was already destroyed) but villains STILL used them against him.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.


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  5. #185
    Mighty Member WeaponX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    That was the point exactly: Logan didn't know about them (or in Daken's case, by the time he learned about him the potential for a happy relationship was already destroyed) but villains STILL used them against him.
    Except a guy who's memory has been wiped and had multiple fake memory implants not remembering his kids isn't exactly the same as me not knowing I have kids.

  6. #186
    Fantastic Member healed1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponX View Post
    Except a guy who's memory has been wiped and had multiple fake memory implants not remembering his kids isn't exactly the same as me not knowing I have kids.
    What does that have to do with Ambaryerno's point that Wolverine's enemies use his kids against him whether he knows about them or not? At that point it doesn't matter why he doesn't know they exist. As established in Jason Aaron's larger arc where Wolverine goes to hell, it's still emotionally devastating either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    That was the point exactly: Logan didn't know about them (or in Daken's case, by the time he learned about him the potential for a happy relationship was already destroyed) but villains STILL used them against him.

  7. #187
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    This conversation has been had, she was always called Amiko, but there was a girl called Akiko in the original story, which is likely where people got confused.
    Okay, apparently she was originally called Amiko, but then got changed to Akiko in "Kitty Pryde & Wolverine", then back to Amiko again.

  8. #188
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    That was the point exactly: Logan didn't know about them (or in Daken's case, by the time he learned about him the potential for a happy relationship was already destroyed) but villains STILL used them against him.
    Sorry, I was unclear in what I was trying to say. If Logan had known about the kids it is obvious he would have protected them from what was done to them as he did with Akiko so they wouldn't have been used against him. To me it doesn't seem to really matter if Logan is present or not, Daken and the Red Right Hand are great examples of his enemies taking advantage of his absence, but we could just as easily point out how many times the X-Mansion has been attacked by his enemies or a group of enemies even though he was present.
    You brought back Wolverine

  9. #189
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I've already sung the praises of this issue and I intend to review it for PopMatters, which should be posted soon. But apparently, some people found reasons to not like this issue and I question the legitimacy of those reasons. Did anyone see this tweet from Tom Taylor earlier?



    It capped off a long, frustrated rant Taylor made about this kind of criticism. And he's definitely not the only one. I actually have a pretty good idea of which comic reviewer he's talking about. I won't say their names here because they don't deserve the attention or recognition, but they seem to whine about every Marvel comic these days as being some sort of "SJW" trash. It seems they go out of their way to twist and contort the story of a comic into being some sort of propaganda. Granted, I can see why some would feel that way about certain comics, but this one? How can anyone read this comic and think it's all just this SJW trash. It's Laura and Logan fighting ninjas and having a family moment at the end. When did that become a political agenda? Seriously, it's times like this where I sincerely worry about the way people assess comics.
    I haven't read the book, but I did watch his review (Diversity & Comics btw), and he had some sound points. Sometimes I think he looks a little too hard for leftist propaganda, but thoughts and opinions are always thought-out and well-reasoned. If I'm remembering correctly, his biggest problem was that the book made Laura out to be clearly better at being Wolverine than Logan. Again, I haven't read it, so this isn't my opinion, but from the panels he showed in the video, I can see why he might've disliked it enough to rip it.
    I really don't see what's wrong with this type of criticism. If you'd actually watch the videos, you'd see that he has solid arguments and is only trying to make the industry better (from his perspective). So he doesn't like something you like... big deal.
    Valiant- X-O Manowar / Bloodshot Salvation / Harbinger Renegade / Eternity / War Mother
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  10. #190
    Astonishing Member Panfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    I haven't read the book, but I did watch his review (Diversity & Comics btw), and he had some sound points. Sometimes I think he looks a little too hard for leftist propaganda, but thoughts and opinions are always thought-out and well-reasoned. If I'm remembering correctly, his biggest problem was that the book made Laura out to be clearly better at being Wolverine than Logan. Again, I haven't read it, so this isn't my opinion, but from the panels he showed in the video, I can see why he might've disliked it enough to rip it.
    I really don't see what's wrong with this type of criticism. If you'd actually watch the videos, you'd see that he has solid arguments and is only trying to make the industry better (from his perspective). So he doesn't like something you like... big deal.
    The guy unironically uses the term SJW and has videos like "I flush MS. MARVEL #19 down the toilet". Come on.

  11. #191
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    I truly hope this issue leads into a future issue where Gabby and Laura go to Japan to see Akimo.

  12. #192
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panfoot View Post
    The guy unironically uses the term SJW and has videos like "I flush MS. MARVEL #19 down the toilet". Come on.
    Yea, so? SJW is a fairly perfect word to describe some people, both ironically and literally. Hell, a lot of people proudly admit that they are warriors of social justice.

    ...and he didn't like Ms. Marvel? Who cares? His whole thing is to rip or flush or throw comics that he didn't like. Whats the big deal?
    Valiant- X-O Manowar / Bloodshot Salvation / Harbinger Renegade / Eternity / War Mother
    -- Coming Soon! -- Nov. Ninja-K / Dec. Quantum & Woody! / Mar. Shadowman

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  13. #193
    Amazing Member Criticalfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    She was trained and conditioned from birth to be a tactically minded killer.

    There are other factors then just "clone", there is the entire nurture side of the equation... social skills were not part of the curriculum.
    Ok thanks, I am playing catch-up on my knowledge here. I asked to clarify my ignorance.

  14. #194
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    Yea, so? SJW is a fairly perfect word to describe some people, both ironically and literally. Hell, a lot of people proudly admit that they are warriors of social justice.

    ...and he didn't like Ms. Marvel? Who cares? His whole thing is to rip or flush or throw comics that he didn't like. Whats the big deal?
    I agree. Flushing comics is clearly his gimmick, meant to be funny, mixed on it but ... his point it taken. Plus he's got around 34k subscribers so it doesn't matter too much what the objectors say reallly. No sweat.

    I watched the video he did and the one capt.cummings did. Found some snark in the comments that said...

    (Also lets not kid ourselves, X-23 is above fanfic writing, it's more like a Wolverine fanfic written by Kamala Khan)
    Seems apt from my perspective.
    Regardless, most people had they're mind up about what they wanted/expected and where they stood on things long before this comic. The Wolverine loves and the x-23 lovers... and the diversity gestopo no ones going to budge
    one inch over a singe comic.
    Though books like this are why its good wolverine is dead. If hes gone it limits the amount they're likely to drag someone elses creation and peoples favorite through the mood.
    "...There are some lies that lodge so deep in the hopes of man that they can never be killed no many how many are
    executed to make the lie true..." -On Communism; Gerard Vanderleun

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