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  1. #1
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    Default Are today's comics less patriotic than Golden Age comics?

    When the World War II was breaking out in Europe, many US superhero comic books were preaching to the readers about defending the American values of democracy and liberty against the Nazis and the japanese. They, especially the Fawcett Captain Marvel books, even included the ads encouraging the readers to recycle comics so the US military will use recycled paper and also to buy war bonds. It is argued that Wonder Woman was created as a patriotic character seeking to defend American democracy even though she is an Amazon raised in a matriarchal theocracy that worships Greek Gods.


    Right now does anyone see the signs of patriotism or jingoism in modern comics?

    I read the Secret Empire #8 and Sam Wilson gave a speech as Captain America, but he spoke little about defending freedom or other American values in his speech, even though the Hydra just conquered America and is on the way to destroying democracy in the US. All he talked about was taking the fight to Hydra and not giving up hope. He hardly explicitly said "Let's liberate our country from the tyranny of Hydra",

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    I would hope so. Patriotism is for the infantile and the mentally ill.

    \_(ツ)_/
    Last edited by Vegan Daddy; 08-12-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  3. #3
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Patriotism is wrongthink. The West, especially America, needs to learn that it is a worthless empire of shit that needs to be purified by global rightthink as soon as possible. Presenting the West's own heroes as being proud of their nations of origin is hate speech, and hate speech is double-plus-ungood.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkerbob View Post
    Patriotism is wrongthink. The West, especially America, needs to learn that it is a worthless empire of shit that needs to be purified by global rightthink as soon as possible. Presenting the West's own heroes as being proud of their nations of origin is hate speech, and hate speech is double-plus-ungood.
    Hooray for globalism. Down with sovereignty! To hell with borders!
    "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you... And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye?..."

    FAVES: A-ko (Project A-ko), Rogue, Cassandra Cain, Supergirl (New 52), Power Girl (Kara Zor-El), She-Hulk, Spider-Gwen, Squirrel Girl, Jessica Cruz, Silk, Cassandra Lang

  5. #5

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    Zetsubou, there are various levels of patriotism in Golden Age comics, not all of which reduce down to jingoism. But you're essentially correct; modern authors usually don't have a handle on any form of patriotism, except jingoism.

    Frank Miller is one of the few modern-day talents who seemed to take the subject seriously.

  6. #6
    Spectacularly Neurotic Sharkerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    Zetsubou, there are various levels of patriotism in Golden Age comics, not all of which reduce down to jingoism. But you're essentially correct; modern authors usually don't have a handle on any form of patriotism, except jingoism.

    Frank Miller is one of the few modern-day talents who seemed to take the subject seriously.
    It is the sad side-effect of a societal trend of demonizing ones own homeland. Especially in today's modern, knee-jerk twitcher discourse, it is assumed that if you are for something, it must mean you are automatically against everything else to the most extreme possible measure. Ergo, Patriotism must equal Jingoism. Even if you write a story about a patriotic hero that in no one denigrates other countries, just, say, Captain America trying to clean up drugs off the streets of Washington or something, such a story is now assumed to have overtones of racism, sexism, anti-immigration, etc. The idea of the Patriotic Hero is relegated to a joke, a relic of a bygone era of ignorance and arrogance, because people today are so much more enlightened.

    It's a shame really. Of course too much national pride can lead to jingoism and xenophobia, but characters like Cap, who has frequently butt heads with his own government, are not about placing his country on a pedestal above all else, but about inspiring his fellow countrymen to a higher ideal. In today's political and social climate, however, I think such nuances are easily lost on folks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Star View Post
    Hooray for globalism. Down with sovereignty! To hell with borders!
    The further we centralize power, the less voice each individual person has and the easier they are to exploit!

    Um...I mean...Borders are Racist!

  8. #8

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    This is the case, but it's not necessarily a problem.

    Comics are currently produced for an older, more mature audience, and we live in a more skeptical pluralistic society.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This is the case, but it's not necessarily a problem.

    Comics are currently produced for an older, more mature audience, and we live in a more skeptical pluralistic society.
    Or to be more apt the Golden Age of comics took place during a time when we we're engaged in a war on a scale we had not seen before or since. Jingoism sold because, frankly, we needed it to. We don't currently.

    Doesn't mean that publishing aren't pushing their own agenda today. It just doesn't sell as well.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    The further we centralize power, the less voice each individual person has and the easier they are to exploit!

    Um...I mean...Borders are Racist!
    Guns are racist too. That's why black people get shot so much.







    (I can make that joke because I'm half black so nyeh!)



    But seriously, we all have the right to bear arms so that when Hydra Steve eventually incarnates in the real world we can do something about him. Some people won't ever get that though. States are already having their power to govern themselves stripped away as it is. We're way down the path to a dictatorship and all political parties have been guilty of purposefully pushing us there. If Captain America was real he'd be labeled a domestic terrorist and everyone who follows the mainstream media would be condemning him as nationalist extremist. (He's Captain AMERICA not Captain Planet after all)
    "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you... And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye?..."

    FAVES: A-ko (Project A-ko), Rogue, Cassandra Cain, Supergirl (New 52), Power Girl (Kara Zor-El), She-Hulk, Spider-Gwen, Squirrel Girl, Jessica Cruz, Silk, Cassandra Lang

  11. #11
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    Top 10 Most Patriotic Comic Book Covers:
    http://comicbook.com/blog/2009/07/01...c-book-covers/

  12. #12
    Incredible Member foxley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    Zetsubou, there are various levels of patriotism in Golden Age comics, not all of which reduce down to jingoism. But you're essentially correct; modern authors usually don't have a handle on any form of patriotism, except jingoism.

    Frank Miller is one of the few modern-day talents who seemed to take the subject seriously.
    By wanting to have Batman go and murder every Muslim in the world. Completely balanced and fair.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxley View Post
    By wanting to have Batman go and murder every Muslim in the world. Completely balanced and fair.
    Reread my post. I didn't say, "everything single thing Frank Miller ever wrote is gold," and in fact HOLY TERROR is an example of a work that is jingoistic but not the least patriotic.

    Try reading his earlier works, such as GIVE ME LIBERTY and DAREDEVIL BORN AGAIN, and maybe you'll concede that he's capable of patriotism without jingoism.

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