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  1. #1
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    Default Alan Moore's Powerful Writing on Rob Liefeld's Series.

    In my honest opinion, I believe Alan Moore had some of the best writing of comics in the 80's. He was the king, his Saga of the Swamp Thing was far more superior than the original people who created it. He's a master at complete and utter deconstruction and annihilation of ideas. I'd easily say, he's the Mozart of comicbooks. He's got the ideas for anything, and anything he did in the past is still really present today. I wished that DC never fucked this guy over, but then again, Moore not knowing in the 80's how serious Watchmen really was and how important it would've been, did that to himself. I can't say he's a bad dude for the choices he's made. But like, no one knew in the 80's how stuff would be today. It's a lot like his Miracleman which I consider one of the greatest comic revamps of all time. Miracleman is super important for being the first comic to even show porn, or even go as far as someone getting raped. Moore honestly pushed that series over the edge and it was great. Even the ending of it felt entirely absolute. After Neil Gaiman came into it, it in my eyes went downhill. It was like, I get Moore wanted someone to continue it but it was perfect as it was. However, today, Miracleman isn't as big as it was back then. Which is sad, cause that's important comic history and a complete game changer into what comics are doing today.

    Another series I loved that he worked on was Supreme. Supreme was everything you'd think it would be, but waaaay better. Rob Liefeld isn't the greatest writer in the world and his artwork can be completely disgusting and nauseating enough to make you throw up. But his Supreme, I'd say, was his best series he's ever done in his entire career as a comic writer or artist. I can't consider Youngblood good, cause Youngblood flat-out sucks. I'm not a fan of ripoff characters that all look like chopped up hacks and left-over ideas from Marvel and DC in a fuck-all series that basically buried Liefeld's career even more. So much, that everyone on Image told him to get lost. That was literally the beginning of the end. Recently, Joe Casey made it better, but it's still Youngblood and it still sucks. I seriously hated it cause the damn series didn't even have a straight run. It was all over the fucking place, being cancelled, then restarted, then back again on another volume. It's like Supreme. Goes from one series, into random mini-series, into a mess of pure shit. If you counted all Youngblood comics, it would be too many, and most of them are all garbage with filler, showing character bios no one cares about and what's inside each pouch. It went from being a comic, into comical nonsensical bullshit party.

    Now, imagine getting the guy who created something in the 80's on a one-shot for Green Lantern that would literally become the premise of Geoff Johns entire run on the title into the Blackest Night storyline. That's deep, or the guy who changed Batman forever on a 82 page maxi-comic, that would literally become time-line history for Batman, Joker and Batgirl. This is the same guy, who took Captain Britain from shit, into one of the hottest titles of all time and still is amazing as it was back then as it is now. Rob must've been good friends with Moore cause he had him on a ton of his stuff. And every time Moore did something it was a million times better than anything Liefeld did with his own stuff. But Supreme is super different and it's extremely important. Not many people really recognize this or even understand the severity of what Moore did with that series. Supreme was actually Liefeld's version of Superman. It was almost the same story but changed up. It keep having terrible runs from one label to the next, even when Moore jumped on. It wasn't an absolute straight volume or anything. I kinda wished that Moore's entire part of the series was collected in a magnificent hardcover, that would be incredible.

    Anyways, here's why Moore's version of Supreme is so important. He actually had ideas to work on Superman, and Wonder Woman. However, at the time he had a huge fall out with DC and it was like "Thank you, fuck you, goodbye!". In my head, I would think since Moore had took the time to write so much stuff and actually wanted to see it come out. He re-touched it up and incorporated it on Supreme, then he further stretched it out onto Glory's mini-series, which should've been a full-length but was cut short due to Liefeld's horrible management. Glory was his version of Wonder Woman, and it was great. As I read that, I would keep thinking, damn, imagine this script with the real Diana and George Perez's artwork. Could you have imagined at how expensive something like that would've been now? Moore did more for comics than anyone in history besides the legends. However, since his departure from the world of superheroes and into his own fray of things. I don't like anything else he's actually done. I find his other works bland, boring, shallow, and his hearts not into it. But man, if this guy had done stuff like Daredevil or Thor or even Doctor Strange, could you have imagined how incredible any of that could've been. Hell, I'd bet you besides Geoff Johns revamp of Aquaman, which I might add was amazing and super enjoyable. I'm sure, Moore would've done Arthur Curry a great deal and made him super legit and everyone love him again.

    Moore has so many things that he's done, but I don't know if anything will ever be collected in proper order. Just like that Supreme series. Since it's all over the place and not one straight run. But multiple runs on multiple labels It's a toss-up, really. And he's always been dickish when it came to stuff he's done like Miracleman and the licensing and such. I believe strongly that America's Best Comics was his last and final straw and that would be the last time he'd ever done anything mainstream. But I hope one of these days his mainstream works can be presented in prestigious hardcovers. Remastered, revamped and treated with the best care for a man who's put so much of himself into his works that it's criminal not to see these things on people's shelves. One last thing I gotta add. I loved the Vigilante series the original by Marv Wolfman, that was amazing. And once again, Moore did 2 issues in that series and those were I think amazing. I'm telling you, Moore is like or was one of the best writers in comics period. Last and not least, I won't say Liefeld sucks cause he doesn't. I did love his X-Force, and although, I mentioned his horrible art. I still love it cause it brings you back to that time. I just wished Liefeld had taken better care of his comic ventures and businesses instead of letting them crumble into dust.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    I like the above post.

    I know he went on to do what he wanted to, but like katatonia said, imagine if he did 40-50 issues on Thor or Dr. Strange.

    He could still have done his own stuff, like From Hell (his best work) V for Vendeta and the intriguing League of extraordinary Gentleman.

    I found his ABC comics very forgettable, with great art.

    I don't know who owns what, and Moore is not in it for the money, obv. but we certainly need new prestigious HC collections of his more seminal work.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Speaking of Moore, if I may go on a tangent, his CPt Britain omnibus is ridiculously costly, going 3 times (or more) over cover price.

    Any chance we get a new edition? The print run musthave been around 5,000 or even less? Idk?

  4. #4
    TPB/HC Enthusiast JJ87's Avatar
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    I like this post and totally agree, a decent Supreme hardcover collecting Moore's run is long overdue.

    The only part where I disagree is Gaiman's run on Miracleman. Moore's run can be read as its own thing and has a rather conclusive ending, that I felt left things just open enough for someone to pick up if needed. Gaiman's run, in my opinion, brilliantly built upon Moore's foundations, and can be read on its own as well without detracting from Moore's work. We haven't had the chance to read the whole story that Gaiman intended, hopefully he and Buckingham get on it soon.

    The high point of Moore's career, in my opinion, are his ABC series, which I found highly creative, entertaining and rich in concept. Top Ten is fabulous, Promethea is a series you an write a full thesis about, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen has the biggest attention to detail I've seen in a limited series (and simultaneously had me re-reading the literature of my childhood and looking up for old books as well) and Tom Strong was fun as hell (and was also picked up by great writers who did interesting stories with the character).

    Check out his Providence series if you haven't, I'm not the biggest Neonomicon enthusiast, but as a Lovecraft fan, it's a phenomenal love letter to his mythos. Also, for what it's worth, Moore wrote one of the two or maybe three Crossed story arcs that I would actually recommend.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Supreme was okay. It had some good moments, but it also had way too many of the flashbacks. They were cute for five minutes (and National Flashlight Battery Inspection Day was genius) but they went on way too long.

    For his ABC stuff, the first two books of LoEG were the high point for me, followed by Top Ten. Promethea had some good bits, but I got fed up with all of the lectures about magick.

    Since then, I can't think of anything he's done that hits his earlier heights, but he's always worth a read.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Dark-Flux's Avatar
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    Meh, I think Providence is up there with his best.
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  7. #7
    Incredible Member Elegant Dreamer's Avatar
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    I'm also fan of your post.

    Never read Youngblood, and what you wrote coincides what I've researched. One said Shaft was based of Liefeld. Plus there is Alan Moore's famous quote working with Liefeld: "Less than a gentleman."

  8. #8
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    I made a custom bind of Supreme last year and read it again and it is really fantastic. It really really really deserves better trade collections. Something like Morrison's Zenith got as far as nice new collections.

    You read Supreme and it's almost hard to believe Moore wrote it. Felt like a Grant Morrison story. And that's what is so impressive about Moore and his range.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 08-18-2017 at 02:15 PM.
    Thank you America for voting for change.

  9. #9
    Sun of the Mourning Montressor's Avatar
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    BIG fan of Moore's work on Liefeld's characters. I looked forward to his Supreme every month--to me it was the perfect companion to his '1963' (which I sometimes think I stand alone when it comes to loving '1963'). I loved his Youngblood revamp, and the little 'Crisis' the universe experienced in 'Judgment Day'.

    He may claim to hate superheroes nowadays, but he sure did some fun stuff with them in his heyday.
    Read my free superhero webcomic, The Ill!

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  10. #10
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    the thing about Supreme and then even the Tom Strong---they are so obviously lesser works of his, but oh my god they are still so amazing. I would love hardcover collections of these books. Cant Believe Liefeld cant figure out he could make a few bucks on a prestige style reprint of Supreme.
    trying to be nicer

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Dark-Flux's Avatar
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    Tom Strong is available in HC. Both standard and over-sized.

    Wasnt there some rights issue with Supreme reprints? Like Checker own the rights, not Liefeld...
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  12. #12
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Flux View Post
    Wasnt there some rights issue with Supreme reprints? Like Checker own the rights, not Liefeld...
    Checker has the rights pretty securely I think. Checker Book Publishing Group has teamed up with Devil's Due Publishing Inc. to become Devil's Due Digital.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checke...blishing_Group
    http://www.comiclist.com/index.php/n...-now-on-kindle

    Whatever is going on, it's downright criminal that Moore's Supreme does not have nice new in-print editions or a one edition omnibus or something.
    Thank you America for voting for change.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member TomSlick's Avatar
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    Was Supreme ever finished? I seem to recall reading that Leifeld was going to release the transcript and someone else was going to take over and continue it based off of Moore's plan. Maybe I imagined that, tho.

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member bobellis75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomSlick View Post
    Was Supreme ever finished? I seem to recall reading that Leifeld was going to release the transcript and someone else was going to take over and continue it based off of Moore's plan. Maybe I imagined that, tho.
    Am I crazy or didn't Erik Larsen write/draw the ending to Supreme using Moore's script? Then I think Larsen built on it for a few issues doing his own thing and it got panned critically.

    Or maybe I'm remembering some vision I had after eating too much peyote.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member LordJulius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montressor View Post
    BIG fan of Moore's work on Liefeld's characters. I looked forward to his Supreme every month--to me it was the perfect companion to his '1963' (which I sometimes think I stand alone when it comes to loving '1963'). I loved his Youngblood revamp, and the little 'Crisis' the universe experienced in 'Judgment Day'.

    He may claim to hate superheroes nowadays, but he sure did some fun stuff with them in his heyday.
    Nope, you're not alone. I loved 1963 when it came out and it's a shame the series couldn't be finished. It's one of Moore's work that is unjustifiably overlooked. Back then I bought everything that had the name "Moore" on it, including the (even back then) atrocious Spawn vs Violator and Violator vs Badrock minis.

    Re: Tom Strong: the rights belong to DC now. Just the other day BleedingCool reported that Tom Strong and his family are going to become part of the current DC continuity, appearing in Lemire's The Terrifics (at least that's what I think this title is called).

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